Evidence of meeting #9 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tool.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
This is mainly a matter of expertise or knowledge of the appropriate terminology.
Let us look at the following example. A person works as a translator but is not necessarily familiar with the legal field. That translator works in the private sector but does very little legal translation. However, another person who translates a lot of legal texts would have more expertise in that area.
4:20 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
Translators can develop terminological expertise. However, they also need to know what to look for in order for the decisions to be well translated.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Everyone says the same thing. The person who came to present the Portage tool mentioned that it was designed for personal use. For example, if I want to write to my colleague next to me in French, I can use the tool to make sure I use the proper terms.
I am now a member of the opposition, but I was once a government member. When I was a parliamentary secretary, I would get texts back from translation and my assistant and I had to rewrite them. She is here today and she can confirm that. I did not take any courses in translation. I used to wonder how I was going to get everything done. I had to carry out my duties as an MP and as parliamentary secretary, and on top of it all, I had to rewrite texts that I had gotten back from translation. The Portage tool did not exist at that time. The translators must have been using a different software.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
Yes.
I also worked for the Parliament of Canada in the 1970s, and I was often called upon to translate texts. I hated it because translation was not part of my job.
I do not think that anyone could object to a tool designed for personal use that would allow people to understand texts. That is not what I am concerned about. I am concerned about communication with the public.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you, Mrs. Boucher.
Mr. Choquette, you have the floor for three minutes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
You probably cannot answer my questions, but I am going to try asking them anyway.
We spoke a lot about cost. Are you aware of any studies that have been done on the cost of translation for departments and agencies that use private translation companies?
4:25 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
Unfortunately, I cannot answer that question.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
That is a good question. Recently, I asked the government Question No. 53 on the Order Paper in which I indicated that there seems to be some uncertainty regarding how effective it is to use external suppliers. I wanted to find out whether it costs less or not. I am going to examine this issue more closely before I ask you about it again.
We have talked a lot about the use of this tool for reading texts, for example. I think it could be useful for someone who already has a rather good knowledge of the other language. It could even be used to write short emails or things like that. However, we have been told that it should never be used for writing even if it is just a short email. This brings us back to how a bilingual person could use the tool compared to how a unilingual person might use it.
In your opinion, should the tool be used differently by someone who is bilingual than by someone who is unilingual, or should the tool never be used to write a text?
4:25 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
I cannot make any assumptions about how people will use the tool. That is why it is important to seriously examine the issue and to have very clear directives and guidelines. People need to understand that the tool must not be used to communicate with the public or even to communicate with other people within the public service.
However, as it has been said many times, this is a comprehension tool. If that is what it is used for and if there are clearly defined and well established guidelines, then I think that excessive use could be prevented.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
That is why I think that your idea of creating a working group is a really good one. Linda Cardinal, a professor at the University of Ottawa, submitted the same idea. That would allow people with the necessary skills to set limits and establish guidelines on how this work tool is to be used.
In closing, you mentioned that translators make it possible for French to be a language of creation, not just a destination.
4:25 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Can you speak to the importance of the translator in achieving official language equality?
4:25 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
You will recall how laws were drafted bilingually in Canada in the 1960s and 1970s. They were written in English and the translator had to slavishly translate the English text. He or she did not take part in the process at all.
In the case of a dialogical translation, the translator participates in the process and guides the author of the text to ensure that both versions ultimately are creative and very clear.
The translator plays an important role in the development of legislation in a bilingual system of official language equality like Canada's. If every parliamentarian and every official were bilingual, we would not need translation. However, I do not believe that will ever happen in our lifetime.
The translator plays a very important role for unilingual people, bilingual people, and for the Canadian public as a whole. People can rest assured that the texts they receive are of very high quality.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.
Mr. Doucet, I have a question for you.
From a legal standpoint, can this translation tool be subject to the Translation Bureau Act or the Official Languages Act.?
4:30 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
Obviously, if someone receives a text that they consider to be of lesser quality, then that person can always file a complaint with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages. That has been done in the past. The fundamental principle of the Official Languages Act is the equality of both official languages, as I have said. We do not have a main language and a secondary language. Both languages are equal.
In my opinion, the communication of documents to the public falls under the Official Languages Act and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Could someone complain about the fact that a translation was done by machine and turn to the courts?
4:30 p.m.
Professor, Director, Observer of International language rights, Moncton University, As an Individual
It seems unlikely that this would be taken to court right away. However, if the person felt that the text he or she received was not of the desired quality, then they could certainly file a complaint with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages and ask for an investigation. Ultimately, this could end up in court. We have seen people sue institutions because bilingual texts were not produced on time or were not of similar quality to the original texts. It can come to that.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your presentation. Thank you very much for your answers to the questions. On behalf of the Standing Committee—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
That's good for my colleagues who had a chance to speak, but it seems that—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal