Evidence of meeting #38 for Official Languages in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
No, Mr. Beaulieu, that money was never released. Consequently, the federal share has not been transferred either. The agreement was reached two years ago, but we've received nothing to date.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Nothing at all has been paid, and no action has been taken. Nothing's moving. Is that correct?
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
Nothing's moving. I'm taking action and the ACFA is as well. I find it harder, and this is related to the questions that were previously raised, by Mr. Blaney in particular. My ability to interact with the provincial government is somewhat limited because that's a prerogative of the president of the University of Alberta.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
I'd like to discuss an aspect that always surprises me.
Frédéric Lacroix, who is a researcher, appeared before the committee last week. He said that Campus Saint-Jean receives 0.37% of the budget intended for universities, whereas francophones represent 2% of the population of Alberta. As a result, Alberta's francophone institutions are 81% underfunded.
Do you think that reflects the actual situation?
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
I'm not very familiar with those figures, but I can tell you that underfunding is a fact, if only because, when you consider funding a minority educational institution, you have to understand that there are additional costs.
Just to give you an example, all the faculties of the University of Alberta rely on central services intended for the faculties. We're required to provide those services in French, of course, and that entails additional costs that aren't covered by our current budget. We spend roughly $250,000 on translation a year and have no budget line for that kind of expense.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
I would note that the Alberta government and western Canada are often inclined to blame Quebec or to accuse Quebeckers of being intolerant, among other things, when Quebec's English-language universities receive two or three times as much funding as anglophones' demographic weight from the Quebec government and four or five times as much as their demographic weight from the federal government.
I think they're quite wrong to do so. However, it seems we don't often hear the arguments I just mentioned, which means we should find a way to put more pressure on the Alberta government and all provincial governments in English Canada.
You said the University of Alberta required you to hire only contract staff, not new permanent professors. I didn't really understand that.
Could you tell us a little more about it?
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
Unlike my colleague from the Université de Moncton, where the federal share makes up only 5% or 6% of its budget, it constitutes roughly 30% of the budget of Campus Saint-Jean. However, in accordance with its accounting practices, which are associated with the Province of Alberta, the University of Alberta doesn't allow us to use that federal budget to hire permanent teaching staff. Consequently, we can only hire staff to fill tenure-track positions using the provincial share, which makes up slightly less than 70% of our total budget.
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
In other words, we can only hire contract personnel. The problem is that you don't design programs or maintain research programs relying solely on contract staff.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
The situation's quite desperate.
Mr. Prud'homme, you say you're losing ground because the government doesn't index its funding to account for cost-of-living and salary increases. That causes problems as a result of the challenges associated with demographics and the assimilation rate, which is ultimately lower than elsewhere, in Alberta and the other provinces.
Do you think a change has to come in order to secure the future of the Université de Moncton, or do you feel the longer-term future nevertheless looks pretty good?
Liberal
Rector and Vice-Chancellor, Université de Moncton
Yes, a change is needed. We'll try to make administrative efficiency gains, particularly through centralization. We want the campuses to share more courses and the courses perhaps to be offered as well by postsecondary educational institutions and other provinces.
We need a draconian change if we want to ensure the university's long-term financial survival and vitality.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Prud'homme.
We now move on to the next round of questions.
Mr. Boulerice, go ahead for six minutes.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair
Mr. Mocquais and Mr. Prud'homme, thank you for being with us today.
Mr. Prud'homme, what you said was very interesting. At the same time, however, I found it quite disturbing. You mentioned 10 years of darkness, cuts, a poor financial position and pressure to increase tuition fees. You even concluded the second last round of questions by saying that it was merely a matter of time before what happened at Laurentian University occurred at the Université de Moncton. I think that would be absolutely disastrous for the region. I see Mr. Arseneault is nodding.
Apart from the option of recruiting more Quebec, Canadian and international students, is there anything the federal government could do, under OLEP, for example, to prevent that?
Perhaps that program wouldn't even be enough.
Rector and Vice-Chancellor, Université de Moncton
One of the recommendations I made in my remarks was that, in order to avoid that situation, we need to secure a permanent, minimum monetary contribution that could be indexed to inflation. That would help address increasing annual costs, at least in part. We're unable to offset those costs by increasing the number of students because of declining demographics and the difficulty we have attracting international students, whose tuition fees are twice those of New Brunswick students.
For international students, we could try tuition reduction scholarships, for example, which would lower their tuition fees to a level equivalent to those of New Brunswick students. That would be more attractive. As I mentioned, there's no shortage of admission applications, since we receive 3,000 to 4,000 applications from international students every year. The francophone world is interested in the Université de Moncton, and part of our role is also to open our doors to fellow francophones. Unfortunately, however, the cost barrier prevents many admitted students from actually enrolling at the Université de Moncton.
Consequently, we need to establish a scholarship program for students and secure a core contribution. That would help ease the pressure on students caused by tuition fees.
Rector and Vice-Chancellor, Université de Moncton
We used to have some flexibility on tuition costs since ours were the lowest in the Atlantic provinces. In the last three years, however, they've risen to the average level of tuition fees, and francophone students now have the option of studying elsewhere since we no longer have the monetary advantage that retained them. That may tempt a number of francophone students to pursue a postsecondary education elsewhere.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Mocquais, I'll continue along the same lines.
Considering what happened at Laurentian University, do you think it's just a matter of time before it also happens at Campus Saint-Jean?
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
That's my fear. However, it's another matter whether the University of Alberta, which enjoys a sound reputation, would want to find itself in the same situation and be criticized for abandoning an institution such as Campus Saint-Jean or one of its faculties. Paradoxically, that, in a way, is its best protection.
In other words, if Campus Saint-Jean were alone, what Mr. Prud'homme said would be the path it would take. All francophone universities outside Quebec are in that situation, which is a major concern.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Mocquais, I'd like to clarify a point that Mr. Beaulieu earlier asked you about.
I'm always surprised by administrative absurdities. For example, if you have a $20 bill in your left pocket, you can use it to hire a tenured professor, but if that same $20 bill is in your right pocket, you have to use it solely to hire a contract lecturer. Mr. Blaney mentioned Gallic villages at the start of the meeting, and I feel as though we're in an insane asylum.
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
I won't speak to that, but I must say the situation is extremely odd. Here's another example. The Alberta government has prohibited the University of Alberta from using its reserve fund. As a result, I have to cut courses and can't replace five of the professors whose positions I want to fill, while also creating programs outside Edmonton. The situation is somewhat absurd.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
You're having trouble recruiting professors, you're limited as to the number of students you can admit, and you're unable to expand your programs. Don't you feel you've been pushed into a corner?
Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta
Obviously. That's absolutely correct. That's why we have to get ourselves out of this situation, not one institution at a time, but all of us together. That's precisely what ACUFC proposed in the brief that it submitted to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages and that I referred to earlier.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much, Mr. Boulerice and Mr. Mocquais.
Since we absolutely have to stop at 4:30 p.m., we have four rounds of questions left. Mr. Williamson and Mr. Lefebvre will have five minutes each. They will be followed by Mr. Beaulieu and Mr. Boulerice for two and a half minutes each.
Go ahead, Mr. Williamson.