Official Languages Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

According to procedure, we cannot do things that way. If you want, you can move a subamendment to the amendment. If you do, please move a clear subamendment.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

I apologize, Mr. Chair, but I have had my hand raised for a while. I was wondering if you saw me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Ms. Martinez Ferrada, I know you are new to the committee. You have to click on “participant” instead of raising your hand on screen.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you for letting me know, Mr. Chair. Things work differently in other committees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

I am coming back to Mr. Beaulieu very briefly.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The subamendment would be worded as follows:

b) Evaluate the effectiveness of the federal government's language policies...

That would replace the rest of the amendments Ms. Lalonde proposed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

We have three speakers on the screen: Mr. Arseneault, Ms. Lattanzio and Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

The debate is about Mr. Beaulieu's subamendment.

Mr. Arseneault, go ahead.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I heard what Mr. Beaulieu said to us about the subamendment. However, talking about the federal government's language efficiency—if you could use the word “efficiency”—and its impact on provincial legislation will inevitably lead to us evaluating it, or studying it. Did I correctly understand Mr. Beaulieu's comments to mean that we should not do that? This worries me a bit. I'm not sure I understand the subamendment.

I'm not opposed to it, but I'm not sure whether I understood what Mr. Beaulieu was trying to explain to us. It is impossible not to evaluate or study provincial measures that will interact with federal government policies.

That is why I felt that Ms. Lalonde's previous amendment did all that simultaneously. That's my two cents' worth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

Ms. Lattanzio, go ahead.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like Mr. Beaulieu to clarify something. I agree with my colleague. If we carry out that study, we must necessarily look at the role provincial legislation is currently playing in achieving the objective.

My question is specifically about Mr. Beaulieu's proposed wording, which includes the promotion of the French language and of the legislation—the Charter of the French Language in Quebec. I would like to understand his questioning or his hesitation to include provincial legislation because, in the first version, we are targeting Quebec legislation, which is also a provincial piece of legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

The next speakers on my list are Ms. Martinez Ferrada and Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Beaulieu could use the opportunity to answer these questions.

Ms. Martinez Ferrada, go ahead.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to come back to the efficiency of language policies and the role of federal and provincial legislation. I think that the two elements complement each other. Determining whether policies are effective is one thing, but understanding the role of various levels of government in terms of the issue we want to study seems just as important to me.

I give you the example of immigration. That area is managed through an agreement concluded with Quebec, which is unique to that province. I think it would be just as important to understand how this agreement could impact language.

This is why I think that studying the role of legislation remains important in the amendment moved by Ms. Lalonde and that it takes nothing away from the essence of the motion moved by Mr. Beaulieu. All it does is add another extra layer that will help see the study proposed in the current motion from a different angle.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

Thank you, Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

There are no other raised hands. The next speaker will be Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Beaulieu, go ahead.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

This was actually implicit in my previous comments. What I want to study is the impact of the federal language policy on provincial language policies.

The original intent mainly focused on the Charter of the French Language instead of evaluating each provincial piece of legislation, their repercussions and possible differences. In any case, paragraph c) says, “Consider possible amendments to the Official Languages Act...”.

As a result, the objective will certainly not be to propose amendments to provincial legislation, but to propose amendments to the project to modernize the Official Languages Act.

I think the amendment adds nothing. It complicates everything and emphasizes provincial language policies. At the same time, I won't light my hair on fire if my subamendment is not accepted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Lalonde, the floor is now yours.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Beaulieu, your comments are somewhat of a validation for the reasoning and basis of the amendment to your motion I proposed. I know very well why the French language in Quebec is declining. As the member for Orléans, in Ontario, I can tell you that we are also seeing a shrinking of the francophone pool in our population.

I thought it was very relevant to know what role provincial legislation plays, for example, and its potential impact. Far be it for me to meddle in provincial business and recommend anything at all to the province. However, the committee should at least be concerned about what is happening in other provinces, including British Columbia and Alberta, and even Ontario—I would gladly speak more about Ontario.

Why not take an interest in the provinces, in their current legislation, in its impact, in the possibility of cooperation and in the errors made?

How can the federal legislation better support the process that has been triggered through the modernization work on the Official Languages Act?

I sort of understand your hesitation, Mr. Beaulieu, but you are emphasizing Quebec's case, while I am speaking on behalf of my other colleagues who represent communities outside Quebec, where the French language has been declining, as we know full well. So I ask for your indulgence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

So I am putting Mr. Beaulieu's subamendment to the vote.

Do the committee members agree with Mr. Beaulieu's subamendment?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I request a recorded division, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

So we will go ahead with a recorded division.

(Subamendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)

The Chair:

I am now putting Ms. Lalonde's amendment to the vote.

Are there any objections to us passing Ms. Lalonde's amendment?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair:

I am now putting Mr. Beaulieu's motion as amended to the vote.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I would like to move another amendment on paragraph c).

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Ms. Lalonde, go ahead.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I ask for your indulgence, respected colleagues. I am sending the text immediately to your P9 accounts.

Ms. Ménard, I am sending it to you, as well.

Once again, Mr. Beaulieu, I am talking about your original motion, more specifically paragraph c).

I will read it.

c) Examine all the tools available to the government, as well as consider possible amendments to the Official Languages Act, to harmonize the government's commitments to protect and promote both official languages of Canada;

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

While we wait for the email to arrive, we will debate this amendment.

Mr. Beaulieu and Mr. Blaney have raised their hands.

Mr. Beaulieu, go ahead.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

This amendment greatly changes the motion by proposing to examine “all the tools available to the government”. I don't see what other tools, aside from amendments to the Official Languages Act, could foster the protection and promotion of Canada's two official languages. What we are interested in is examining the situation of French. I don't see why we need to add “both official languages”.

I will let Mr. Blaney comment, but I could come back to this. It seems that no focus is being placed on French and that people absolutely want to talk about both official languages.