Official Languages Committee on May 20th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

However, I told you earlier that, once Ms. Ashton had finished speaking, I would rule on whether the motion was in order. I'll now hear from everyone who raised their hand to speak about your motion, Mr. Beaulieu. Ms. Ashton is last on this list. I'll then give the floor to the other people who raised their hands.

In terms of your motion, I want to hear from everyone, just as I let you speak, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Dalton had his turn, and then we heard from Mr. Godin and Mr. Serré. By the way, your name is on this list, and Ms. Ashton will be last. After that, we'll see.

Mr. Samson, I can see you motioning to me. Just so you know, two of us are taking down names.

Mr. Serré, you may continue.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank Mr. Beaulieu for giving me the chance to clarify my comments about CEGEPs.

Former prime minister Trudeau asked Liberal members of Parliament to visit CEGEPs in Quebec to talk to students about the importance of French. My father was one of the members who went to speak to the students. My father always used to tell me stories about the time when he visited CEGEPs. He told me about how people would comment on the fact that he came from Ontario and spoke French very well. That was in 1970. As I said at the last meeting, or perhaps in the media, my great‑grandparents came to Ontario in the 1870s—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I just want to clarify the issue of—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Hold on, Mr. Serré.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Actually—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, I haven't given you the floor yet.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

My microphone is on, in any case.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I think that everyone around the table understood the explanations that I gave earlier. As I told you, if you want to raise a point of order, you say “point of order”, and then you stop there. I let the person who has the floor finish their sentence, then I give the floor to the person who raised the point of order. I told everyone, on an equal basis, at the same time, at the same second, that if this instruction weren't followed, I would consider the committee in a state of disorder.

This isn't for my sake, for our sake or for yours, Mr. Godin. It's out of consideration for the interpreters. As chair, I want to stop having to explain why we should turn on only one microphone at a time. We want to avoid injuring the interpreters' ears. I hope that I won't need to say this again at a committee meeting.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for your point of order.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, a standing order—unfortunately, I don't know the exact number—states that we must stay on topic. When we start talking about Mr. Serré's father, who was also a member of Parliament, we get off track.

Can we get back to the issue at hand this evening?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

This is indeed a valid point of order, Mr. Godin. However, Mr. Serré touched on the heart of the matter earlier and gave examples related to the motion. I can't stop him, because his comments are relevant. He goes a bit far, gets back to the motion and gives some parallel examples. I can only listen to what Mr. Serré has to say.

This was also the case for Mr. Beaulieu. His comments were related to the motion and he gave some parallel examples. Mr. Beaulieu was about to talk about provincial funding for post‑secondary institutions, but then he came back to the topic of the motion.

I use the same judgment, so to speak, for all members of Parliament, even though I don't have a tool that tells me exactly when a member is straying too far from the topic.

I'll let Mr. Serré speak.

When I find that someone has really strayed from the topic and isn't getting back to the motion, I'll stop the person. As I already explained a long time ago, I'm permissive. I give people one chance, two chances, three chances, and then that's it.

Mr. Serré, you have the floor.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's relevant, given that the whips decide when members of Parliament will travel or which committees they will take part in. Every political party has a whip. The committees don't decide these things.

At the time, the whip asked my father, for example, to go and speak in CEGEPs. My father often said that, when he visited CEGEPs, he was called a liar and a traitor. He couldn't possibly come from Ontario and speak French. That was in 1970. This point matters, since it concerns the history of francophones.

Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Godin and Mr. Généreux, you're lucky to have been able to live in French more than I and my ancestors did in northern Ontario. In spite of everything, we have kept our language and our culture. We have primary schools, secondary schools, colleges and even universities now.

The motion asks that the chief government whip remove a member from this committee. However, this issue doesn't even fall within the purview of our committee. It would really be an abuse of power on the part of the committee. As a result, the motion is out of order.

Obviously, that's why Mr. Godin and Mr. Beaulieu are always together. They're constantly muttering about their strategy.

In terms of the motion, I find that, when it comes to francophones outside Quebec, the members across the way sometimes have a bit of trouble. I'm a bit jealous that they could work in French. I didn't have the chance to work entirely in French.

In connection with the motion, we can also talk about the court challenges program. I'm also on the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. We're having trouble right now, because the Conservatives don't want the court challenges program bill to go through. They have already cancelled this program twice. This program has helped us francophones. It has helped the case for our schools. Mr. Godin's father was also involved with the Montfort Hospital case and with helping primary schools.

The francophone community outside Quebec is closely tied to the motion.

I liked the comments that you made earlier, Mr. Beaulieu, about working together. I couldn't agree more. It's high time the Bloc Québécois thought about francophones outside Quebec. You can laugh about it, Mr. Beaulieu, but the comments that you made earlier were a bit insulting. You said that only 10% of francophones were outside Quebec. I hope that you weren't implying that these francophones didn't need help and that it was a waste of money.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

One moment, Mr. Serré.

I would like to remind the committee that all comments must be addressed to the chair. This will prevent tension from building up. I absolutely don't want tension to build up in the room.

Mr. Serré, again, please get back to Mr. Beaulieu's motion.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll just finish by saying that there are plenty of precedents here. We can talk about the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. I encourage the public to take five minutes to listen to one of this committee's meetings. The members of Parliament had to wave to vote, because people were shouting so much. It was unbelievable. Yet there weren't any consequences for the Conservatives.

In terms of this motion, the two components related to the chief government whip and the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie fall completely outside the scope of the committee's work. As other members said earlier, I also think that we should move on to important matters. We have a meeting next Thursday. Hopefully, we can focus on the issues that matter to the community. The Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario has asked us to do this, and the committee heard the same thing last Thursday. The needs are considerable across Canada, including in Quebec, where the French language is in decline. The Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario has made this clear and has implored the committee members to work together.

Mr. Godin will say that he isn't making this a personal matter. Yet, on this side of the room, when we look at motions that aren't even in order, that fall outside the scope of the committee and that aren't even committee business, it's quite hard not to take things personally. I think that it's time to start looking at what matters to francophone communities and minority language communities across the country.

Mr. Beaulieu, I could refer to many more articles of this nature. I haven't even touched on the cuts that the Conservatives want to make to Radio‑Canada, which would significantly affect francophones across Canada.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

It's all related to the topic.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

One moment, Mr. Serré.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'll refer to the same standing order again. We need to get back to the topic for which you summoned us from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. this evening. It's quite clear. I would like my colleague to get back to the topic.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Serré, I think that you were just finishing your remarks, right?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Yes. I was just about to finish my argument.

Yes. That's clear. I understand the comments made by Mr. Godin, who doesn't want to talk about how the Conservatives want to cut Radio‑Canada funding across the country. However, I think that this issue is related to the topic of the motion, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Serré, let's get back to the motion. This is your second chance.

Had you finished speaking, Mr. Serré?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Drouin, and then to Mr. Samson.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since I'm the subject of this discussion, I'd like to look at my colleagues and, for the sixth time, offer my sincere apologies to the witnesses. We all run out of patience from time to time, but never in eight years have I behaved as I did on Monday, May 6.

That said, there seems to be a double standard. I invite my colleagues to look at the behaviour of other MPs on other committees or in the House of Commons who are, I imagine, judging me.

First, I know full well that the Leader of the Conservative Party has called the mayors of the two largest municipalities in Quebec, which are also the two largest francophone municipalities in North America, incompetent. What did the other side of the House say? It was radio silence.

With all due respect, the debate is no longer about my apologizing. Instead, this is fodder for petty politics. I'm well aware of that. I've been observing politics for a long time. I understand that people on the other side are frustrated. It's nothing against me personally, and I know that full well. The Bloc Québécois is nonetheless engaging in a misinformation campaign against me by saying that I don't support the francophonie.

I'll quote what the Deputy Whip of the Bloc Québécois said on Friday, May 10, the last day the House sat, “the Liberal member from Glengarry—Prescott—Russell spent his 15 minutes of fame denying the decline of French in Quebec…” Did I actually deny the decline of French? Did I actually say so publicly? I encourage my colleagues to look at what I said.

Let us recall some of the words that have been used. Mr. Beaulieu employed in particular the words “to use”. It's curious, because I clearly remember the comments made in the House on February 7, 2023, by his party's House leader, the member for La Prairie, and other comments by Mr. Beaulieu, the member for La Pointe‑de‑l'Île. When people say that we are using our disputes and various battles, I wonder who is really trying to divide francophones in the House or in communities that might have a different vision about how to defend their own language.

First, I want to quote Mr. Therrien, who said, “the Liberal member from Glengarry—Prescott—Russell said this morning: 'The smoke show led by some of my colleagues is shameful. The Island of Montreal does not have a monopoly on linguistic policy in Canada…'” Does Mr. Beaulieu truly believe that I wasn't defending the Charter of the French Language and Quebec's Bill 96 when I made the comments reported by his House leader?

I'll now quote the member for La Pointe‑de‑l'Île: “Yesterday, a Franco-Ontarian member had the courage to speak out against the appalling spectacle these members were putting on and the false information they are spreading about Bill 101.” Once again, I would dare say that, on February 7, 2023, my dear colleague didn't think that I was denying the decline of French in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada.

That's not all. I spoke earlier about the CEO of insults, Mr. Pierre Poilievre, who insulted two francophone mayors. Those comments by the leader of the official opposition resulted in no reaction on the opposite side of the House. Yet they're now demanding that I withdraw from the Standing Committee on Official Languages. I'll repeat what my dear colleague, the member for Portneuf—Jacques‑Cartier, for whom I still have a great deal of respect, said: just because it's legal, that does not make it ethical.

I think I understand why people want to talk about this today. I know full well that some Conservative MPs billed their expenses to attend partisan events. I could ask the Conservative members of the committee whether they did, but I know that's not the topic of today's discussion. We will have plenty of time to discuss that.

Earlier, I offered my apologies. My mother taught me that there were only two perfect people in the universe: my mother and God.

I also remember the teachings of my father, Yves Drouin. I'm proud to be his son. He was a founding member of the Association française des municipalities de l'Ontario, along with Jean‑Marc Lalonde and Gisèle Lalonde. Gisèle Lalonde was the person who fought for the Montfort Hospital.

This brings me to a question: Who deserves to be a member of this committee? I said some offensive things and I admit it. I've apologized, six times now. I know it was beneath me to create an environment that was disrespectful to the witnesses. I fully recognize that. I don't usually do that. Nonetheless, I want to believe that my actions carry far more weight than any words or things I may have said to someone to whom I was obstinate and disrespectful.

We all fought for the enumeration of rights holders, whether it was me, my francophone community outside Quebec, or even you, Mr. Chair. Why was the enumeration of rights holders so important? It's because we knew that some questions in the long‑form census estimated the number of rights holders, but that the courts didn't recognize that number. Now, those questions are also part of the short form. That means that every francophone outside Quebec is now counted and has legal weight in the fight for a francophone school, for example.

However, not all francophone communities have the means to take their fight to court. Some need to use the court challenges program. However, the Conservative Party opposes that program. I hope that Conservative MPs, including those on the Standing Committee on Official Languages, will have the courage to tell Mr. Poilievre that they disagree with him about the program. In the 1990s, specifically in 1998, a Franco-Ontarian community told Mike Harris and his Conservative government that they disagreed with the closure of Ontario's only French-language hospital. Personally, 19 years later, I used the services offered in French at the Montfort hospital when I had a child. Of course, it wasn't me who had the child, and for that I owe a debt of gratitude to my wife. That said, I was able to speak in French with hospital staff, and it's thanks to the people before me who fought for the French language.

Then they call me anti-francophone. Let me remind you of the whole issue of bilingual judges. Mona Fortier, who is sitting next to me, can attest to this. Even when my own government was against this measure, we stood up and said we didn't agree with them. Today, we're very proud that it was part of Bill C‑13. We stood up, even when our own government told us it didn't support the bill at that time. To achieve this, Franco-Ontarians and other francophone communities outside Quebec had to stand up. In fact, I'd like to acknowledge Mr. Samson's efforts in this regard. Mrs. Koutrakis wasn't with us at the time, but that's okay, Mr. Serré was. We all fought for it.

The fact remains that I'm being asked to apologize and that people feel I don't deserve to be a member of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. The Bloc Québécois is questioning my commitment to the francophonie, and I don't accept that. It's an attack on my integrity. But I respect it and recognize that it's petty politics.

During the debate surrounding the creation of the Université de l'Ontario français, I made an announcement that was not popular within my own community. I didn't agree with the idea that the federal government should fund 100% of the Université de l'Ontario français. Why not? Because I didn't want it to encourage the provinces to withdraw from our post-secondary institutions. Today, we have an agreement that extends over eight years instead of four. By the way, I'm not the only one who made that happen; I say that very humbly. Even two years ago, we would've had to fight for funding from provincial authorities.

If I've expressed disagreement, it's not because I'm wearing red or blue or orange or pale blue. I did it because, first and foremost, I always wear green and white. I have those colours tattooed on my heart.

I'd now like to come back to the apology being demanded of me, and the double standard that exists.

I'm being asked to apologize, but I'd like to remind the committee that there is a French-speaking community in Canada that feels hurt by comments made by the leader of the Bloc Québécois. With all due respect for Mr. Beaulieu and the MP for La Prairie, I have yet to hear someone call for their leader to apologize. Well, that's not for me to judge. Six years ago, I adopted a personal policy of not commenting on Quebec affairs, and I'll stick to that.

That said, why the double standard? Is one francophone community more important than another? My answer is no. The Quebec nation is just as important as the Franco-Ontarian community, and the Franco-Ontarian community is just as important as the Franco-Albertan community, and so on, not to mention Acadian communities which, like yours, Mr. Chair, or like that of my friend Mr. Samson, have also suffered injustices in the past.

That's where we are at.

If I may, I'd like to express a sentiment felt by francophone communities outside Quebec. I'm going to say something positive about Bloc Québécois MPs: I applaud their efforts to defend francophone communities outside Quebec. However, whenever some of their staff or columnists call us lame ducks, dead ducks, cadavres chauds, communities on life support or, as we heard recently, Cajuns who speak gibberish, the Bloc Québécois says nothing. I'd like to know why the Bloc says nothing. If we really want to unite francophone communities across Canada and francophones in Quebec, we have to listen to those who may not have the same opinion as us, but who all have an interest in defending the French language.

I've often said that, personally, I don't have the luxury of waking up in French. My wife is English-speaking; love has no language. However, every morning, I choose to speak to my son in French. My wife and I also chose to send our son to a French school. Since then, things have been going great.

It's true that I am part of the majority in my riding, but my community is part of a minority. The beauty is that more and more francophones are joining our community. Even so, we know that we need to rely on francophone immigration. For francophone communities outside Quebec, it's no longer up for debate.

I'll now come back to the apology I'm being asked to make.

I've apologized six times already. If someone wants to table a motion asking me to walk barefoot to the Vatican and be whipped, I'll do it. However, I don't accept people saying that I'm not defending the francophonie, because that's an attack on my integrity. It's an attack not only on my integrity, but also on that of the Drouins who preceded me. Incidentally, my ancestors arrived on Île d'Orléans in 1634.

I know that some members opposite don't really enjoy listening to long speeches. I'd like to remind you that we all make mistakes. I made a mistake and I've admitted it. In fact, I admitted my mistake immediately and, less than a second later, withdrew my comments.

This has never been my typical behaviour, unlike Mrs. Thomas, for example, who constantly insults other MPs or witnesses, including Minister St‑Onge, as my colleague Mr. Serré mentioned. I would also remind the committee that the Conservative leader didn't listen to the Speaker of the House of Commons at all. The Speaker asked him to withdraw his words not once, not twice, not three times, but four times, and he never did. So who is disrespecting our parliamentary institution? That's the fundamental question.

I don't want to talk endlessly, because I know it's after 8 p.m., but I'd like to remind the committee of one thing: the little Cajun who speaks gibberish in Ontario, well, his family has been speaking gibberish in Ontario for ages, and families have been speaking gibberish in Ontario and speaking Cajun for ages too. It's extremely insulting to be called that. It's extremely insulting to be called dead ducks.

I'm reaching out to my colleagues. I'll even salute the Legault government, which has repeatedly indicated its willingness to work together to promote Canada's francophonie. I'd also like to salute my own government, which not only passed a bill to support the Canadian francophonie and defend the official languages, but also earmarked an investment of $4.1 billion over five years for that purpose.

I remember that the last Conservative government, of which the current Conservative Party leader was a cabinet member, froze funding for 10 years. I don't need to do the math to you to explain that, with 10 years of inflation, that hurt official language minority communities.

I recognize what my colleagues are trying to do. I salute them and I still respect them. They're not making it personal, it's petty politics, I understand that full well. However, they're talking out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to what I'm saying and what some of their colleagues in their own caucus are saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Sampson, you have the floor. Then it will be Mr. Beaulieu's turn.