Official Languages Committee on June 13th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No, I am going to interrupt you.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

No, wait, I am replying to—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, I am going to interrupt you. The chair is asking you.

If, in the next 10 seconds, there is no objection to releasing our witnesses, I will release them, and I—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I am not releasing them, and we are moving on to the members.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

No, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, I am not giving you the floor. The next speaker is Mr. Généreux.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, you are asking committee members a question. So I want to answer you, Mr. Chair. He calculated 30 seconds. If we calculate 30 seconds for all the speakers, the witnesses will be able to answer. We cannot bully our colleagues based on deducing that it is going to take 25 minutes. They have spent seven weeks—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Exactly. Mr. Godin, I am immediately taking away your right to speak.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Right.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I was doing it politely and diplomatically, for the benefit of the witnesses who are here. I see there is no unanimous consent to release our witnesses. We will ask them to stay here, at the table. I thank them for being here.

We are going to hear the next ones on the list of people who want to speak to us. The next three are Mr. Généreux, Mr. Dalton and Mrs. Kusie.

Mr. Généreux, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Unless I am mistaken, our witnesses are being compensated, whether they are here or in their offices. I don't think there is any problem in that regard.

I have been relatively discreet, if I may say so, since the start of the mess that has plagued the committee for several weeks now. I did so voluntarily, thinking that the Liberals might ultimately understand the will of the committee. When I talk about the will of the committee, I am referring to the fact that the three opposition parties have introduced a motion and are hoping to be able to vote on that motion and the Liberals have engaged in parliamentary obstruction to prevent that vote.

I would like to remind all members of the committee that we have been told since the Liberals came to power, that is, since 2015, that committees are independent. I believe we can always doubt the accuracy of that claim, since committees are inevitably a reflection of the political parties they are made up of.

In saying that, I would point out that we do want to give all the freedom and all the choices that a committee may make; people can act voluntarily or involuntarily. However, one thing for sure is that in politics, and especially in our parliamentary system, there is a direction, a path that is, to some extent, laid out by a party, toward the things that have to be done, that have to be brought to committee, prioritized, and so on. The evidence is that there are employees here, behind us, who are in constant communication with other levels within our respective parties, and not just on the Liberal side, but in all our parties; obviously, we include ourselves in that. It is true for all parties.

As well, since several weeks ago, since the beginning of May, here we are at the end of June, the end of the parliamentary session, facing obstruction in response to a decision about the independence of the committee. If the committee were truly independent, as the Liberals have been saying for several years, we should immediately call the vote on the motion we introduced to have Mr. Drouin removed from the committee.

There is therefore no reason why we should still be discussing this today. If the Liberals really think, in their heart of hearts, that committees are independent, then, ordinarily, we should be able to decide, if the decisions we make here really are independent of the party in power. We should be able to take action and vote on this motion.

I do not want to make a lengthy speech, but I have wondered for a long time whether the independence of committees was truly something dear to the Liberals' heart. Obviously, today, I have to acknowledge the evidence and conclude that it is not, since people other than the ones who are here around the table, and who are not necessarily employees, are running it. In fact, I want to recognize, in passing, all the employees who support us in our deliberations. I tip my hat to them. They do exceptional work and it is important that they be here.

To all appearances, the whip's office and certain individuals are running the committee. That is it in a nutshell. They are running the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Forgive me for interrupting you, Mr. Généreux, but you should be addressing the substance of the motion that has been made.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Essentially, I think we should move on to the vote as quickly as possible, but also continue or get back the time that has been wasted for francophones and all minority communities, in Canada and Quebec. I think we should meet this summer to be able to get back the time wasted.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

Mr. Dalton, the floor is yours.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I would like to say a few words about Mr. Godin's motion.

We have wasted seven weeks. I think we can easily agree to five more meetings during the summer to do our work, because it is important to official language minority communities.

We have heard long tales from Mr. Blois, about his ancestors in France and chateaus, and from Mr. Serré. We spent a lot of time on them. It was somewhat entertaining, but we really wasted time. We learned a lot about them. Our lineage is important, but we really need to do our work.

We all know that we have wasted time. We are here to hold the vote, and I want us to think about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

Mrs. Kusie, we are listening.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

As I think you can imagine, I agree with my colleague Mr. Godin. Right now, I sit on two committees, the Standing Committee on Official Languages, obviously, and the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

We have a lot of meetings during break weeks or when we are in our ridings. I think it is reasonable to do the work that is needed in order to achieve the objectives that committees have. As my colleagues said, we have wasted seven meetings.

In my opinion, asking for five meetings is very reasonable, given the time we wasted on Mr. Blois' story, for example. I did my best to share a small part of my history too, in making my remarks, here at the committee.

I think five meetings is very reasonable. It is what was done at another committee. It has worked well, to do the necessary work at the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. I think it would work here too.

I therefore support Mr. Godin's motion and I hope all members of the committee will agree to take a bit of time this summer to do the work that was supposed to be done before this unfortunate situation started.

To conclude, I am asking for a vote, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

So we are going to continue to follow the list already made.

Mr. Beaulieu, you are the next speaker. You have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We agree that a lot of time has been wasted, because the Liberals do not accept the majority vote. That is deplorable. However, we will not support the Conservatives' motion to make people travel during the summer, when we are not sure whether the systematic obstruction will continue. I think there is surely a way to make up the lost time once we come back.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Drouin has the floor, and then it will be Ms. Ashton and Mr. Serré.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

On the motion itself, I find it a little bizarre that for the two dates, July 8 and September 13, identical motions were made in the other committees.

I am talking about the motion. I find that bizarre.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I am listening, Mr. Godin.

[A voice]

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