Official Languages Committee on March 28th, 2022

[Caroline Xavier]

Thank you for clarifying your question.

For the specific standard on which the examination is based, I would have to check and get back to you later with further details. What I can say is that the exams were designed as a function of the program under which a person submits an application. That's why it's hard to give you a precise answer, because we are speaking of cases generally. What I would ask you is to give us a number of specific instances so that we could look at them in greater depth. If the chair is in agreement, we could provide the committee with additional details about the language exams used by the department for its various programs.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like these responses to be sent to us by email so they can be recorded.

My next question is about francophone immigration from Africa. We know that 60% of the world's francophones are in Africa. And yet, applications from that continent have the highest rejection rate.

Do we want to increase francophone immigration to Canada or not?

[Caroline Xavier]

Thank you for asking that question.

We definitely want to increase francophone immigration to Canada and that African countries, particularly francophone African countries, represent opportunities for us. That's why we did things like introduce the Student Direct Stream, which is available in Senegal, Morocco and other countries with the capacity to send us francophone students. It's definitely a priority.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Sometimes people change the type of immigration after they have submitted an application to come to Canada as students. You were saying that the rejection rates could be explained by the fact that some people, after submitting an application as a student, end up requesting refugee status. Has the number of people in this situation changed or is it the same as ever?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Kayabaga. I'm sorry, but your speaking time is up.

I'd like to remind the witnesses that they can always send us documents in response to questions.

We will now go to Mr. Mario Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Xavier, did I understand correctly earlier when you said that 90% of immigration officers spoke French?

[Caroline Xavier]

Thanks for asking that question.

What I said was that over 91% of positions at our call centre, which is mainly based in Montreal, were in designated bilingual positions.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Why did you advertise unilingual English positions in November?

[Caroline Xavier]

Most of our positions are bilingual, as I said. However, owing to the large number of applications we receive and our desire to continue to provide excellent service to our clients, a number of positions are designated unilingual English. That doesn't mean that most of our employees are unilingual anglophones. When people contact the call centre, they can dial 1 for service in English or 2 for service in French, and their call is forwarded to an officer who speaks the selected language. Most of the officers are bilingual, and therefore the capacity is there.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We heard testimony from a lawyer, Mr. Handfield, who told us that they wouldn't speak to him in French, even though it was at the request of his client. I myself witnessed a situation like that.

He and other lawyers have said that their clients often receive an answer in English when they speak to the officers in French. Mr. Handfield told us that the situation was not improving, and that it had even got worse over the years.

How can you explain that?

[Caroline Xavier]

I apologize for being unable to give details about the case you've raised. But it's clearly unacceptable for a person requesting a service in an official language to be unable to get an answer in that language.

That's not what we're trying to do. As I told you, we regularly hire people who can speak both official languages and are continuing with these efforts in the department.

It's definitely unacceptable for someone not to receive the service they need. I can tell you that if we were to receive a complaint, it might be referred to the official languages commissioner's office, where an investigation would be carried out if required.

Right now, we're trying to do everything possible to respond in the client's preferred language.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Xavier.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Niki Ashton now has the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A few weeks ago now, Ms. Honorine Ngountchoup testified before our committee about the services she had received from your department. She had tried to contact IRCC, but had all kinds of problems and could only be served in English.

You may be saying that 90% of the officers are bilingual, but that's not what we're hearing in the field.

How can you reconcile the evidence heard by the committee about the quality of service from your department and what you are saying? Is it because of a staff shortage? Are you using unilingual English temporary employment agencies? What's going on at IRCC?

[Caroline Xavier]

Thanks for your question.

I can affirm that our priority is to ensure that everyone can be served in the official language of their choice.

As I mentioned, 91% of the positions at our call centre are designated bilingual. That doesn't mean we have filled all these positions yet.

The number of requests we are receiving at our call centre is definitely growing, but I can assure you that we are doing everything required to hire staff, whether on a temporary or casual basis, for a term or indeterminate period. We are also making sure that we hire bilingual staff to provide the services you mentioned.

I can't give you an explanation for the examples you mentioned. We are very disappointed that these occurred, but I can assure you that we are making an effort so that the situation will get better rather than worse.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We are hoping that's the case, because the evidence we've heard was very worrisome.

I would also like to ask another question, based on testimony that we heard.

With respect to francophone immigration, we also identified a problem with French-speaking staff at day care centres and in the education system.

At our office, we also had similar experiences. We're trying to support our own organizations, but the government is refusing what we are recommending.

Could you have less restrictive criteria for welcoming francophone immigrant students to meet these needs?

[Caroline Xavier]

I'll ask Ms. Prince to answer that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm sorry, but that's all the time we have.

Thank you very much.

All kinds of information and statistics were requested from the witnesses and the minister. I'd like to remind people that any information requested can be sent in writing to our clerk.

Also, please don't hesitate to send us any other information you feel is relevant and which, in your opinion, could help us prepare our report on this study.

So, before adjourning…

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I just want to check that Ms. Prince will be sending us the strategy I asked her for, the one being used by people in the department.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's what I just asked them for.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I know that you just asked them, but I want to make sure that we're all agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Absolutely. Ms. Xavier said that she would do that.

And Ms. Ashton, could you send us your notice of motion in writing, even though you have already read it out.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I believe the notice of motion has been sent to the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Excellent.

Just a reminder that next week, we will be receiving the Commissioner of Official Languages, but only for the first hour of the meeting; the second hour will be spent on committee work.

I hope everyone enjoys the rest of the week. We'll be meeting again on Wednesday.

The meeting is adjourned.