Evidence of meeting #120 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schools.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
To preserve instruction by and for francophones, shouldn't there be more schools? If French schools are located 200 kilometres away, it becomes complicated.
Former School Counsellor, As an Individual
There could be more French schools in some places. However, we can't always rely on the typical little box that defines a school. There are creative approaches. Yes, all francophones should have the option of learning in French and the minimum number shouldn't be too low.
For example, when I was a school counsellor, I voted to open a new school in our town of Barrie. As I was saying, 25 to 30 non‑Catholic people were entitled to a French‑language education. Hence my proposal to open a school to serve those 25 to 30 students, knowing that their numbers would increase. Shortly afterwards, the superintendent came to us with anglophone admission committees. I let him know that, no, I didn't really want to open an immersion school. He replied that we would look crazy if we had fewer than 100 students. For him, it wasn't a matter of serving students, but of not looking crazy if we had fewer than 100 students in a school.
As a school counsellor, I was prepared to fight until the end for those 25 or 30 students. We opened the school, and 92% of the children in grades one, two and three were new rights holders identified on the spot. The remaining 8% had already entered through the normal admission process.
Former School Counsellor, As an Individual
The French school that I was thinking of opening became an immersion school.
Former School Counsellor, As an Individual
—because too many students in French schools should be in immersion schools.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Mr. Dorion, I'll bring out the strap.
Phew, Mr. Beaulieu, you're in luck.
Mr. Boulerice, I'll be generous too. Normally, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm lucky enough to live with a person who speaks French as a third language. We're talking more about the children of Bill 101 here. Today, she works and writes exclusively in French. It isn't quite the same, but I'm reminded a bit of this.
Ms. Thibault, a number of people think that institutions that provide French as a second language are taking teachers, students or resources away from francophone institutions. What's your take on this? Is it true?
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Parents for French
I don't think that it's true. According to the reports that we have on immersion, around 50% of immersion teachers went through the immersion system.
I personally teach French as a second language here in Ottawa. I've taught core French and immersion. I must say that, despite what my current level of French may lead you to believe, I lacked the confidence or linguistic security needed to teach in a French school in Ottawa. I felt quite comfortable in my immersion class. However, I would never have had the confidence to try to get hired by the French board. Admittedly, I didn't have the chance to fully live in French. My mother was Irish and I learned French. Of course, a person could be confident enough in their abilities to teach in a French school. I applaud that person!
That said, Mr. Boulerice, I don't think that the figures reflect the reality. I think that the figures may be more accurate in remote areas, where people are happy to welcome a French speaker, even though that person took an immersion course in a French school. People are happy to be able to provide the program.
Moreover, the skills are different. When I teach a second language, I use a different methodology to teach the language to a person who has never spoken it before. Francophone students will have an ear for French, as they say. Anglophone students can't yet tell whether we say “le table” or “la table”. We must use teaching strategies to help them hear French properly. I'm personally qualified to teach French as a second language in an English school. However, I'm not qualified to teach French in French schools.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
I would like to talk about the responsibilities of the federal government.
Do you think that the federal government is doing enough to recruit and retain teachers in French schools, especially in rural areas?
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Parents for French
Since the implementation of the action plan for official languages, specific investments have been made in this area. I believe that this is a good start.
With your permission, I would like to make a comment.
In 2019, the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages published a report entitled “Accessing opportunity: A study on challenges in French‑as‑a‑second‑language education teacher supply and demand in Canada”. The report's first recommendation was to set up a national French‑as‑a‑second‑language consultation table, bringing together all the provincial education departments, community organizations and the Department of Canadian Heritage, for example.
This table has helped us a great deal with collaboration and co‑operation on certain projects and with sharing projects that work well. For example, if I'm doing something related to recruitment, I can talk to another province, which can do something similar.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Parents for French
In my opinion, the creation of this national table is a good investment. It's a start.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you.
This table is so undisciplined!
The witnesses' comments are quite intriguing. I think that the committee will give them a “VIP pass”.
Ms. Gladu, you now have the floor for no more than two minutes. After two minutes, the axe will fall.
The Liberals will then have five minutes.
Ms. Gladu, you have the floor.
November 19th, 2024 / 12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses.
My dream is for our country to become truly bilingual. When I was young, I learned French at school, in grade two, because everyone had to speak both languages. This good idea has now been set aside. However, I think that we should get back to it.
I have only two minutes. I would like to ask Mr. Dorion a question.
What can the government do to improve the situation?
Former School Counsellor, As an Individual
That is a major issue.
We need to invest in those whose mother tongue is French, meaning francophones, and in immersion. To be frank, we can't stop investing in immersion because it is necessary. Personally, I have been dreaming of a country that is truly bilingual for 76 years, and I hope that dream comes true while I'm still alive. So far, it hasn't.
There are two communities, but the English-speaking community is the dominant one. People don't know what the reality is. When a language and culture are part of your core, keeping them alive is extremely important. That is what we should be investing in.
I would like to see cultural organizers working in French schools. At one point in time, the anglophone school board in my region gave us permission to hire a cultural organizer in each school.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
The francophone school boards got rid of them when they entered the picture.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
If you have any other recommendations, you can send them to the clerk.
Former School Counsellor, As an Individual
I'm ashamed of our French-language school boards.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you, Mr. Dorion.
The next two minutes are supposed to go to the Liberals, but since Mr. Lightbound is passing me the puck, I have a question for you, Mr. Dorion. Since we'll be drafting a report, I would like this information to be on the record.
Mr. Dorion,
You talked about a domino effect in relation to rights holders. If I understood you correctly, as soon as someone in the family becomes a rights holder, all generations after that become rights holders as well.
However, how can someone who is not a rights holder become one and thus be entitled as a rights holder to send their children to French school?
What legal mechanism allows an anglophone in an English-speaking family to become a rights holder?