Evidence of meeting #121 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schools.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
With those wise words, I might add that our friend Darrell Samson always says that you have to get up early and go to bed later than others to continue the fight. That's why he goes to bed later.
We now go to the New Democratic Party.
Ms. Dance, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Leila Dance NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you so much.
I'm just going to go back to your presentation. You spoke about how currently the government has a five-year plan. It didn't seem like you liked that number. Tell us what you think the ideal number would be.
Researcher, As an Individual
It's in my four-page document, regarding 2067, Canada's bicentennial. If Finland can have an education plan for 22 to 23 years, I'm not sure why we shouldn't.
We have an official-language plan for five years. We have education plans for five years. We have OLEP funding for five years. There is no education system in the world that functions five years at a time.
NDP
Leila Dance NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Can you tell me, in your opinion, what happens to the French minority communities when a French school or day care closes? Overall, what's going to happen to Canada's official language if the communities don't have access to French language and education supports?
Researcher, As an Individual
We have anecdotal evidence about schools being closed, which was the 1960s centralization: the elimination of small schools into consolidated schools throughout the country.
I'll give you an anecdote. My wife is from Tignish, P.E.I. She did her first year of school—grade one—in a French-language school. Then the province came in and consolidated the six French-language schools in the Tignish area into none. They had to go to English-language schools. She became assimilated. Her sisters became assimilated. The entire village, called Tignish Shore, became assimilated 20 years later.
We have other examples of that throughout the country. We also have examples of schools being built, like in Chezzetcook, in Nova Scotia, where the community revitalized itself.
There are probably going to be hits and misses, but without a school and, secondarily, without early childhood development, it's doomed to failure.
Leila Dance NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you so much.
I want to thank both of you for sharing all of your research and information with our committee today.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you.
Mr. Bourgeois and Ms. Chouinard, the quality of your comments made it possible to focus on the crux of the matter. If you think there is additional information you would have liked to share with us, please send it to the committee. This is really important, because the committee can only write in its reports what it hears from witnesses.
In closing, Mr. Bourgeois, I'm going to use my privilege as chair to ask you a question. As a researcher, you're an expert in school management rights. Is there a legal argument to be made, on the federal side, regarding school management and the fact that school boards are excluded from the negotiations of bilateral agreements? Is there an argument to be made to correct the future in terms of the legislation?
Researcher, As an Individual
Sure. As I said, it would have to be a tripartite plan. Who will represent the minority? It's the people elected by the universal suffrage who sit on the school board. You are federal elected representatives. There are provincial elected representatives who represent the minority, but they aren't even at the bargaining table. They're not even being adequately consulted. Some provinces consult them, but most do not. It's certainly not an effective consultation.
Who speaks on behalf of minorities, who are supposed to have eight exclusive powers, but aren't even exclusive? Section 23 has been around for 40 years. Since 1990, in principle, we're supposed to have full school management, but in reality, that isn't the case. We're floundering. We know what the eight powers are, but no school district or school board in the country exercises those exclusive powers. Are they really “exclusive” if they're shared with the government? It seems to me that, at some point, we have to stop and say whether these are exclusive powers or not. If they are exclusive, let's give them to the minorities, school boards and their elected representatives.
It's a bit like saying that if the province didn't want to decentralize its powers to school boards, school boards would have to assume powers even if it means getting sued by the province. The problem is that the funding isn't keeping up. It would be a good idea for school boards to exercise their eight exclusive powers, such as setting school curricula and spending public funds on culture and identity. If the means don't follow the obligation of the secession case or the Beaulac decision, it's difficult to exercise these powers. You're not going to raise enough money to carry out these mandates through church collections. The provinces should get serious and at the negotiating table.
My last comment is this. I've been working with the Acadian community and the department for two years. I don't want to denigrate the provinces. The Government of New Brunswick is very supportive. In fact, it's in the process of co-constructing the French-language school system. The department is divided in two in New Brunswick; there is a francophone deputy minister and an anglophone deputy minister. The francophone deputy minister is fully prepared to find solutions and establish full school management. It's coming. It will probably be done within the next year or two, depending on the new government. That bodes well. It's not everywhere; it's in New Brunswick, where the situation is different.
Nova Scotia has led the way with the development of the programs. It's the only territory where the school board develops the programs, which is really the crux of the matter. What are you teaching your students, and how? Nova Scotia is a leader in this regard. New Brunswick will eventually lead the way when it comes to full school management. Perhaps it will snowball for the other school boards.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you, Mr. Bourgeois.
Ms. Chouinard, do you have anything to add on this issue?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
I'm going to add to what Mr. Bourgeois just said. I would remind you that the Supreme Court handed down the Arsenault-Cameron decision at the turn of the last century. It explicitly established that school boards and francophone minority parents should be recognized as the community's spokespersons in education. So there is case law that supports what my colleague is saying.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Again, we can't thank you enough, witnesses, for your wise counsel and your very interesting answers.
We'll end it there.
The meeting is adjourned.
