Official Languages Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

You talked about the cost of living in your opening remarks. As we know, everything costs more in Whitehorse, including groceries. When it comes to construction, what impact does that have on management of your operations? You mentioned the Mercier centre. How much does it cost to build a school in Yukon as compared to Ontario or elsewhere in Canada?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

At the time, we thought it cost 50% more to build in Yukon than to construct the same building in an urban centre in southern Canada.

Mr. Champagne, do you want to add anything on this subject?

[Marc Champagne]

At the time the Mercier centre was built, we were told that the construction cost per square meter was essentially about double in Whitehorse as compared to a building in Ontario or British Columbia.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Right.

I understand that ad hoc funding from the federal government, which takes this reality into account, has been very useful to you, particularly in the case of the Mercier centre.

However, if the funding from the official languages in education program took into account the reality where you live, that would help you plan your activities and your expansion, would it not?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

Yes, it would.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Fine.

I am going to ask you one last question, and then I will yield the floor to my colleague Mr. Serré.

You talked about your desire to be consulted more by the Department of Canadian Heritage. Right now, it is the Yukon government that consults you, and then transmits the information to the department. Do you sometimes get the feeling that it is not adequately relayed? Is it the fact that the territory does not consult you enough? How do you perceive the situation?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

Given that this is a discussion about the federal aspect, I am going to leave the province out of this discussion.

However, we can tell you that the consultation Canadian Heritage does with our organization is actually pretty slim. We had a discussion, a consultation, with Canadian Heritage last week, but we had not had any consultation with the department for a very long time.

In our view, it is obvious that it would be beneficial for us to be able to inform Canadian Heritage about how federal funds are used. Certainly it is important that the department consult the province or territory, because they are the ones that signed the agreement. However, Canadian heritage should at least consult us too and give us an opportunity to offer our version of how the funds have been used.

Mr. Champagne could also answer that question.

[Marc Champagne]

At the moment, I think relations with the territory are good when it comes to the negotiations and consultations around the official languages in education program. However, there is some fragility because nothing is codified. We keep coming back to this point. If the team changes, everything could fall apart and everything could change here in the Yukon.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Blais and Mr. Champagne.

I will now yield the rest of my time to Mr. Serré, given that we will be interrupted to go and vote in the House.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Lightbound.

Obviously, because we are going to be called to vote in the House, I would not have a chance to speak during the second round of questions.

Thank you for being with us today, Mr. Blais and Mr. Champagne. I visited your school two years ago. I would ask you to thank the staff and the volunteers and parents for me, for all their work. They do an exceptional job.

Mr. Henry, I want to thank you for your service to Canada as well. That may be why you were one of the first in the country to receive our document. A big thank you too for your work in education.

I have several questions to ask, but I don't have a lot of time, unfortunately. I would like to focus on one point. You mentioned that the formula used for distributing funding among the 12 school boards is not equitable. I was a school board member for six years in the 2000s.

I would like you to talk a bit about section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We have heard here about what the federal Supreme Court could do to enable the federal government to work more with school boards rather than just with the provinces and territories. It seems that the provinces do not consult the school boards equitably.

Can you give us your recommendations for the federal government to be able to play a bigger and more direct role with the school boards?

[Paul E. Henry]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Serré.

At first glance, I think I am going to focus on a few points.

First, we know that governance is entrenched in the Canadian constitution under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Our school board members are elected to serve on their French first language school board to respond to what the parents in their community want. This principle is entrenched and protected. Right now, what often happens is that the provinces do not respect the duality we have been granted.

Take the example of the design of resources for our students. The teachers at French first language school boards are in the best position to define their children's needs, from kindergarten to grade 12, in their school sector. In some cases, we are required to use an English resource that has been translated, which is then distributed in the first language school. That is why I alluded earlier to the uniform solution idea. In my example, there are nuances, and this does not reflect the needs of our students.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Henry.

Mr. Serré, as you see, I am stretching the six minutes out, because there will not be a second round of questions.

Mr. Beaulieu, from the Bloc Québécois, that applies to you too. You have the floor for a bit more than six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Henry, in answer to the previous question about the right of school management, you said at the end that your right was not being respected because you can't choose your tools, such as reference books, which are translated from English to French and are not appropriate. Have I understood correctly?

[Paul E. Henry]

That is one example that I gave you. There have been certain discussions that I can't disclose, because they might relate to potential legal proceedings for our protection. However, I can say that in French Ontario, we often consult experts in French first language education, by and for francophones. They are experts from the University of Ottawa, Laurentian University and the Université de l'Ontario français who support us in designing resources that are adequate, or even more than adequate, for our students. This is important.

However, as I said when I answered the questionnaire, our rights are also violated when it comes to funding for transportation, since our school zones are extremely large, compared to our anglophone counterparts'. I mentioned the size of my school territory earlier, which is 20,000 square kilometres. That is a very impressive bit of land. As well, the costs associated with fuel and insurance have exploded, particularly since the pandemic. My colleague from Yukon talked about capital spending. We often find ourselves in an area where we have to practically yell to get our own infrastructure.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

When you talk about transportation, you mean that because your territory is so large, students have to travel longer distances to go to school, but you don't have a bigger budget than the other school boards, which need less transportation. Have I understood correctly?

[Paul E. Henry]

I forget the exact formula for funding per student for transportation, since it was amended last year, but I will give you an example. I have students who have to take the bus for an hour or an hour and a quarter to get to their high school. They leave Sudbury East at 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning to get to Sudbury itself, in Greater Sudbury. For anglophones, on the other hand, students travel by bus for a maximum of 30 minutes. That is one of the situations that makes it difficult to recruit and retain our students in our French first language schools.

Obviously, we are all part of a transportation consortium. In the Greater Sudbury region, for example, four adjoining boards belong to a consortium, and we are in the process of renewing the contracts with the school transportation vehicle operators, which should be done within two years. My colleague from Ottawa recently saw contract costs rise by between 25 and 46%, which would be attributable to the increased cost of insurance and fuel and the challenges involved in recruiting school bus drivers, in particular. When we add up several factors like that, obviously, it is the school boards that have to absorb the associated costs.

French first language school boards are recognized for their wise financial management. I am proud to say that I represent one of the only French school boards in Ontario to have a budget surplus at the moment. It isn't a huge surplus, but we have pretty impressive reserves. The government is taking a close look at our reserves. They are talking about financial accountability. Having reserves will certainly make it possible for us to build schools in the future, for example, but we still want to take a prudent financial approach.

There is one other very important factor I would like to highlight. Often, the way construction projects are awarded is not equitable. For example, for one year, in my 20,000 square kilometre large territory, two contracts, or two potential contracts, will be awarded to our anglophone counterparts, while francophones receive only one. But we want our piece of the pie. We want to be treated equally, so we are able to serve our communities and respond to what parents request.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

When you talk about unfairness for French first language school boards, you are asking that there be bilateral agreements separate from the contracts that apply to French second language instruction. Do you think too many resources are going to immersion schools as compared to schools by and for francophones?

[Paul E. Henry]

My professional opinion, after 33 years in the trade, is that there is a lot of unfairness pretty much everywhere. If we emphasize the fact that we are entitled to our own management in the French-language schools, I think that is what will enable us to go after our share of the market. So yes, while I do not have the actual figures in front of me, I would say there are some cases of unfairness.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Blais, there are no postsecondary institutions in Yukon. What happens with your graduates?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

There is a postsecondary institution, the University of Yukon, but it is not a specialized institution—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Is it a francophone institution?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

No. So students in Yukon have to go elsewhere to get a postsecondary education in French. Nonetheless, we are working on a community project to have an institution that could offer training and courses in French that are connected with labour market demand. It is going to take a few years, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Blais and Mr. Beaulieu.

We are going to move on to the last speaker in this round before the vote.

Ms. Ashton, from the NDP, the floor is yours.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Thank you, witnesses. I am very happy to hear the witnesses from northern Ontario and Yukon. Here at the committee, we have talked a bit about the special challenges faced by minority communities in the north, particularly from the perspective of education in French. This is an issue I am very familiar with here in northern Manitoba. Thank you for your testimony today. I think it is so important to hear the voices of the north on this subject.

Mr. Blais or Mr. Champagne, what is the situation in Yukon? Can you tell us about the labour shortage for early childhood educators and for elementary and secondary school teachers?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

I will let Mr. Champagne answer that question.