Official Languages Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

The meeting is now public.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 29, 2024, we are continuing our study on the minority-language education continuum.

I would like to welcome our witnesses, some of whom are new to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. With us is Heidi Yetman, president of the Canadian Teachers' Federation. Also with us are the president of the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones, Simon Cloutier, and the executive director of that federation, Valérie Morand.

Witnesses will each have five minutes for opening remarks, after which we will have a series of questions from all parties. I might have to interrupt the discussion at some point to do a sound test with a witness who is having technical difficulties. Other than that, everything should run smoothly.

Ms. Yetman, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Heidi Yetman, President, Canadian Teachers' Federation]

Good morning, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the members of the committee for having me here.

My name is Heidi Yetman and I am the president of the Canadian Teachers' Federation, which represents almost 370,000 teachers in the public sector all across Canada. I am also a graduate of a French first language school in Saint-Boniface, in Winnipeg. I am therefore an example of someone who has benefited from the francophone minority education system in Canada. From 2019 to 2023, I was also the president of the Association provinciale des enseignantes et des enseignants du Québec, which represents the teaching personnel in the anglophone minority community's public schools.

At the Federation, we have a Francophonie program, an advisory committee on French first language, and a network of francophone liaison officers. Of course, all of the Federation's programs incorporate Francophonie components and all services and events are offered in both official languages.

At present, the priorities of our Francophonie program are focused on combatting the teacher shortage. This is a major problem for the future of our schools. Another of our priorities is providing support and professional integration for teachers who are recent immigrants.

In the spring of 2024, our francophone network reported that the main challenge was the shortage of qualified francophone teachers everywhere in Canada. This serious shortage is jeopardizing services to students, damaging their learning conditions and threatening the survival of some francophone schools, mainly in rural areas.

Enrolment in French-language schools continues to rise, which is good news. However, the significant increase in the number of students also comes with major challenges and a glaring shortage of resources. In rural areas, it is very difficult to retain students in the francophone network since the anglophone schools offer more options and more services.

The provinces and territories introduce new programs with very few pedagogical resources or supporting materials in French. In my experience, I can tell you that there is also a shortage of pedagogical materials in English in Quebec. Plainly, the resources allocated to French schools, to provide an education of equivalent quality withinin the systems, are insufficient by far.

In November, I participated in the Conférence des associations francophones d'éducation. After that event ended, a statement was published regarding the shortage of teaching personnel that concluded as follows:

[Translation] This situation is no longer merely a challenge; it is an emergency for both the future of our educational systems and the flourishing of French and its cultures. We cannot remain indifferent to this crisis, which has a direct impact on the future of our children and our communities.

The Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones, which is represented here today at this meeting, is a partner in education. It has identified a number of priorities for strengthening its network, including increasing financial support from the federal government, building schools and modernizing existing ones, developing the education continuum from early childhood to postsecondary, and combating the teacher shortage. The actions arising from those priorities will add to the impact and sustainability of francophone identity all across Canada and ensure equitable access to a high quality education for all learners.

The budget envelopes allocated by the federal government under the official languages in education program have remained substantially the same since 2009, while the number of students has grown steadily and the needs are increasingly urgent.

We not only need more investments in teaching the minority languages; we also need more transparency as to how this money is spent. That is why it is essential that stakeholders be consulted.

Today, I am proud to convey the heartfelt plea of francophone teachers and I urge you to hear their appeal.

I hope I have stayed within my allotted five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Yetman. You finished at five minutes on the dot.

Before we go any further, we are going to bring in Mr. Gagnon, who has finally solved his technical problems.

Mr. Gagnon, are you there?

[Christian Gagnon, President, Ligue d'Action nationale]

Here I am.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please raise your microphone a bit so it is between your mouth and your nose, and say a few sentences so we can check the sound quality for our interpreters.

Is the weather good there?

[Christian Gagnon]

Yes, the weather is very good here. There is a lot of snow, like in Ottawa, I think.

I hope you can hear me. I am going to try to stick to the five minutes' speaking time, too.

May I begin now? Is it working?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's fine, Mr. Gagnon.

Try your best to make your presentation in five minutes. I will stop you if you go over your allotted time. The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Christian Gagnon]

The fact that students continue to attend the francophone minority system is largely due to the quality of the educational experience that francophone students have in elementary school. In many provinces, French language minority elementary schools are still far from offering conditions equivalent to those in the anglophone schools. This is not a recent problem. As long ago as 1996, a study by the Commission nationale des parents francophones showed that of the $5 billion paid by Ottawa under its official languages in education program from 1970 to 1988, 62% went to anglophones in Quebec and immersion schools in English Canada, and Francophones outside Quebec had to make do with a measly 28.5%.

I would like to illustrate the current situation with a concrete example: Rose-des-vents francophone elementary school in Vancouver, which shares a quadrangle with Jules-Verne secondary school. For many years, parents of Rose-des-vents students had been fed up with a school composed of mobile homes joined end to end and poorly soundproofed classrooms that were much smaller than the ones in the anglophone schools. Two of them did not even have windows, nor did the school have a gym or green space, and it had too few lockers.

In 2010, the Association des parents de l'école Rose‑des‑vents hauled the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie‑Britannique into court, citing section 23 of the Charter. The Conseil scolaire francophone and the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie‑Britannique also brought a parallel action against the British Columbia government, on the same basis, in that case involving 20 areas with deficient educational services in French, more or less all across the province.

In 2015, the Association des parents de l'école Rose‑des‑vents won its case in the Supreme Court. In 2020, after ten years in the courts, the Conseil scolaire francophone also won its case in the Supreme Court to have some ten new French schools built.

However, nine years after the victory won by the Association des parents de l'école Rose‑des‑vents, they are still waiting for the new school. There are projects planned for 2028 and 2030, one of which is to be on a lot just beside the quadrangle occupied by Rose-des-Vents school and Jules Verne secondary school, but those projects are going nowhere, since the expansion of the secondary school depends on the old Rose-des-vents school, which is currently occupied, being demolished, and that project is scheduled for 2030. Until the school has been demolished, the secondary school can't be expanded. This gives you an idea of the level of dissatisfaction among students in that area.

The 2020 victory won by the Conseil scolaire francophone in the Supreme Court also provided for construction of some ten French schools, but that project has also stagnated, to the point that the Conseil scolaire francophone has now gone before the British Columbia Supreme Court to force the province to carry out the judgment.

Every five years, protocols are established for the payment of federal funds by Ottawa for official languages education, and every time, French immersion for anglophones is given priority over education of francophones in minority communities. If we take as an indicator of good treatment of francophone minorities the proportion of that money that is allocated to francophone schools, we see that New Brunswick and Ontario are leading the pack, with their francophone schools receiving 75% and 70% of the funds, respectively. The proportion then plummets to below 50%, and even below 40% for the last four provinces: Saskatchewan, British Columbia, Alberta, and Newfoundland and Labrador. This is the case even though those provinces are where the rate of francophone assimilation is highest and the largest share of federal funds should be allocated to French schools—the complete opposite of the present situation.

Since we are talking about immersion instruction, I would point out that several years ago, the former minister of official languages, Mélanie Joly, agreed that the rate of bilingualism among anglophones outside Quebec had stagnated at 9% for 30 years. The reason is that the retention rate for this learning is not making the grade, because after going through an immersion program, most of the children go back to live in an environment where there is virtually no French.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Gagnon. You will have an opportunity to say more when committee members ask their questions. Another thing: I forgot to introduce you as the president of the Ligue d'action nationale, which is the capacity in which you are here today. I apologize for forgetting to mention it.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Cloutier, from the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones, for five minutes.

[Simon Cloutier, President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones]

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on a fundamental issue for the Francophonie in Canada: real equivalency between education for francophone students in minority situations and education for anglophone students in majority situations.

The Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones represents 29 French language school boards across the country. These school boards ensure the education of nearly 180,000 students in our French-language schools, guaranteeing their right to a French-language education under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Today, I'd like to draw your attention to a crucial problem that's holding back the full development of our school network: the chronic underfunding of French-language school boards. This underfunding directly affects the quality of education offered to students, creates inequalities in access to French-language instruction and prevents the development of educational services needed to strengthen our Francophone communities.

The underfunding of the school network translates into inadequate infrastructure, insufficient teaching resources and overcrowded classrooms. In 2021, the census revealed that there were over 593,000 children eligible for French-language education across Canada, but only one third of these children currently attend a French-language school. Why is this rate of enrolment so low? Because, while the supply exists, it's not large enough to meet the demand. There simply aren't enough French-language schools, and those that do exist lack the resources to offer education equivalent to that of English-language schools.

Underfunding has a direct impact on the quality of education we can offer. Our schools lack the resources to hire more qualified teachers, they struggle to adapt educational programs to the needs of our students, and, in many cases, they are forced to resort to temporary infrastructures such as portable classrooms in trailers, which are a short-term solution but detract from the children's school experience.

To remedy this situation, we propose a number of solutions that we believe would remove the barriers to access to quality French-language education in our minority communities.

First, school boards' management rights must be recognized. We are calling for French-language school boards to have genuine management rights, including in matters of student admission, infrastructure and funding. This also includes the right to have a truly consulted voice in provincial and federal decisions.

Second, provincial funding formulas, which do not take into account the specificities of French-language schools, must be adapted. We advocate a revision of these formulas so that French-language schools receive funding that reflects their real needs and the needs of their students.

Third, federal financial support must be increased. Although the federal government plays a key role under the Official Languages Act, the official languages in education program remains insufficient. We are calling for a substantial increase in funding to support francophone minority schools and for these funds to be paid directly to school boards, to cut out the middleman and simplify the process.

Fourth, schools must be built and modernized. We call for massive investment in the construction of French-language schools and the modernization of existing ones. The lack of infrastructure is a major barrier to families' acceptance of French-language schools.

Fifth, it is crucial to strengthen the entire educational continuum, from early childhood to post-secondary education. Access to French-language education must begin at an early age and continue throughout life. This requires better francization services, particularly in regions where demand is high, but supply remains insufficient.

Sixth, we have to counter the shortage of qualified staff in our schools, which is a major challenge for us. To attract and retain competent teachers, we propose incentives such as recognition of qualifications obtained abroad and facilitation of interprovincial mobility.

I will close by saying that the education of French-speaking children is much more than just a question of schooling. It is a question of linguistic and cultural vitality. By investing in French-language education, we are investing in the future of our communities, in inclusion, in diversity and, ultimately, in the prosperity of our country.

We at the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones firmly believe that the proposed solutions are not only possible, they are necessary to ensure an equivalent education for francophone students, commensurate with their rights guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We are ready to work with all levels of government to ensure that this right is fully respected.

Thank you for your attention and your commitment to quality French-language education for all Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Cloutier.

For the witnesses, most of whom are here for the first time, there will now be a first round of questions and answers during which each of the parties will have six minutes. Everyone has the same clock as me. The more strictly I limit speaking time, the more questions will get asked by everyone and the more opportunity we will have to do more rounds of questions after this one.

We will start the first round of questions with the first vice-chair of this committee, Mr. Godin, from the Conservative Party.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us this morning.

Ms. Yetman, from the Fédération canadienne des enseignantes et enseignants, you said you went to school in Saint-Boniface. Were you in a francophone school program or an immersion program?

[Heidi Yetman]

I was in a francophone program.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Are immersion programs offered in Saint-Boniface?

[Heidi Yetman]

No. It really is a francophone minority community.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Is it like that entirely?

[Heidi Yetman]

Yes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You said the labour shortage was your challenge in 2024. What is your solution?

[Heidi Yetman]

First, there need to be places created in francophone universities so that more teachers can be trained. That is one of the missing pieces. In other words, there are not enough places and creating some will help.

Second, we are also looking at recent immigration, which has produced a lot of teachers. That is why the Fédération is working on a project, in collaboration with the Department of Canadian Heritage, to help people integrate. That is another way of addressing the labour shortage.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That is another potential solution for the labour shortage. I think you agree with the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones that a skills equivalency or conversion factor has to be put in place for immigration.

[Heidi Yetman]

Yes. May I add something?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay. Be quick, because I unfortunately have only six minutes.

[Heidi Yetman]

There are also the terms of employment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It is always a question of money, whether we invest in the workforce, in infrastructure, in programs, or in tools. It is not easy.

Thank you, Ms. Yetman.

Mr. Gagnon, from the Ligue d'action nationale, you say that 62% of budgets are invested in immersion schools, English in Quebec and French outside Quebec. Is that correct?

[Christian Gagnon]

The 62% figure comes from a study done in the years between 1970 and 1988.