Official Languages Committee on April 4th, 2022

[Jacqueline Djiemeni]

I haven't necessarily experienced this problem in the field, but when I arrived, I encountered it. Not all the time, but based on my experience, yes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

I agree with your comment. When we bring immigrants here, we need to take care of them to help them integrate. It's a cultural shock, and they need to adapt. The community needs to be welcoming. We have to deal with that, but now, our problem is that there are fewer and fewer of them for us to take care of. We need to have the means to bring in many more. You are right about the fact that we need to treat people well, but now we need to find ways to attract more of them. That was the comment I wanted to make.

My other question is for Ms. Duguay-Langlais.

You said that the machinery of government had to work horizontally to meet targets, meaning through many departments. With respect to the first point, the problem we identified is francophone immigration. I believe the key player here is the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. It's the entry door for immigrants. It's true that afterwards, the other departments need to work with them to be as receptive as possible, as Ms. Djiemeni mentioned.

Ms. Duguay-Langlais, could you tell us a little more about your view that we need to work horizontally with the various departments to attract more francophone immigrants?

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

Thank you very much.

The problem may not necessarily be in terms of attraction, but more in terms of integration and retention. You are right in saying that the main department in charge of finding them, recruiting them and bringing them to Canada is the Department of citizenship and immigration. On the other hand, as soon I they are here, there are various other departments like health, the department responsible for official languages, and employment and social development. All these departments should have services for immigrants. As developers in the communities, we demand a lot from IRCC. There is, for example, the problem of housing, which is directly related to the retention and settlement of our immigrants. That's not an IRCC responsibility. Efforts are also required from the provinces and from other departments.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Duguay-Langlais.

You said something else in your presentation about allowing organizations to go and meet immigrants abroad. I think you are in the best position to convince people from abroad to come to Canada. I find it unfortunate that the department doesn't make use of your potential, talent and knowledge, because you are the best ambassadors in the best salespersons on behalf of francophone Canada.

That's something the committee could recommend.

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

I hope so, and I would also like the provinces to be a part of it. The federal-provincial relationship is very important in this instance. Some provinces, like New Brunswick, pay for delegations from the communities to promote Acadia abroad. There is a provincial responsibility, but it's the federal government, after all, that needs to take the lead and encourage collaboration.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The federal government needs to coordinate all that.

I think that your suggestion today is a good one and that we need to be realistic. We are competing with other countries, because while there is a shortage of labour here in Canada, that's also the case elsewhere. There are countries where the unemployment rate is very high. A global vision is what's needed, and perhaps then, you become part of the solution.

Thank you, Ms. Duguay-Langlais.

I now have a question for the President and Vice-Chancellor of the University of Sudbury.

Dr. Miville, You spoke about the fact that you needed up to 64% francophone immigration to maintain your current level. That's huge. Can you give us some details about that?

[Dr. Serge Miville]

The population is declining in northern Ontario. The average age is very high. We have a lot of catching up to do to replace the population because of the exodus of young people to urban centres who leave for better opportunities and for postsecondary studies. That's why a strategy is needed specifically for the regions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Dr. Miville and Mr. Godin.

Our next question will come from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Official Languages, Mr. Serré.

Mr. Serré, over to you now for six minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank the three witnesses here today, who will contribute a great deal to our study.

Ms. Djiemeni, I want to tell you that the Fédération de la jeunesse franco-ontarienne, FESFO, reminds me of my youth in high school and the leadership camps at Lake Couchiching in Orillia. That was a long time ago. If I have time, I'll get back to that.

My comments are also for you, Ms. Duguay-Langlais and Dr. Miville. I appreciate your testimony, because the previous witnesses spoke a great deal about visa offices, the current immigration problems in Canada, and targets that were not met. There is no doubt that the federal government has a lot of work to do, in collaboration with the province. But then you both looked at things from slightly different angles.

Ms. Duguay-Langlais, You talked about rural and regional community agencies.

Dr. Miville, you talked about reinventing the way we work with postsecondary institutions. I'd also like to thank you very much for the important work you have done in Sudbury and northern Ontario over the years. Can you give us more details about the federal government's recommendations for reinventing the "by and for" model for francophones in terms of the way we work with postsecondary institutions?

What role should the federal government be playing with the province?

[Dr. Serge Miville]

For us, it's clear that French-language postsecondary institutions are in the best position to ensure success for a variety of individuals, whether or not they are immigrants, and to integrate them, as part of the French fact, into a dynamic economy.

I believe that the federal government has to do some thinking about how to equip regional institutions so that they can achieve their full potential.

You are aware, Mr. Serré, that universities have four-year programs, at a minimum, during which they can contribute to the social integration and success of students from abroad. When they arrive, we can put them in contact with the cultural scene, health services, etc. We more or less serve as the hub for integration and success. We are the ones who will manage to put them in contact with future employers. We are the ones who will equip them with the skills they need right now to make our country, our province and our regions internationally competitive.

So I believe that French-language postsecondary educational institutions have to be equipped and provided with the resources they need to accomplish all these things. That means not only investing in them, but also establishing specific regional targets to make up for lost time.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Miville.

Ms. Duguay-Langlais, You mentioned regional community agencies. Can you give us further details about the role of the federal government and the province in terms of enriching our communities?

We currently have thousands of students in postsecondary institutions, heading for the cities rather than remaining in regional communities. What, specifically, can you recommend as a way of encouraging students to remain in regions like eastern and northern Ontario?

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

That's a very good question.

In 2021, we worked with the ACUFC, the Association of Colleges and Universities of the Canadian Francophonie, which requested a study, whose recommendations were published in November 2020. The recommendation was to meet with francophone postsecondary institutions to determine how this role might be performed.

I was very pleased to hear what Dr. Miville had to say. I think that some francophone universities care about what comes after a university education. There is also Cité collégiale, in Ottawa, which is interested in what comes next. These institutions can help us integrate people into our communities. It takes support from universities and other postsecondary institutions. They have a very important role to play.

However, some of the big universities don't seem to have any interest. But there is collaboration with postsecondary institutions. They provide us with forms of access that allow us to introduce programs, such as the new program for international students to help them access permanent residency. That, for us, is the cornerstone. This IRCC program is very important, but international students need to know about it. The universities have to allow us in so that we can tell people about the services available and familiarize them with our communities to encourage them to stay here and feel welcome.

A lot of work remains to be done with postsecondary institutions to open this door.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Ms. Duguay-Langlais.

Mr. Serré, you have two seconds left.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Our three witnesses are excellent.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Next, is the second vice-chair of the Committee on Official Languages, Mr. Mario Beaulieu.

Mr. Beaulieu, It's over to you for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you very much.

I believe all of the witnesses spoke about the importance of integration. We may be bringing French-speaking immigrants into francophone communities outside Quebec, but if the assimilation rate stays at this level, it's a bit like trying to fill a bucket with a hole in it.

What do you think about this?

What more can be done to promote maintaining the language and preventing assimilation to English?

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

Are you asking us?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Yes. All three of you can comment.

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

Good. I'll take a few moments than to give you my version.

The assimilation problem is definitely important. There is much to be done on that, particularly with francophone immigrants. We are working with some English-language institutions that accept them. In my presentation, I mentioned the importance of telling non-francophone institutions that receive immigrants, that they should inform their institutional or other services about who we are, why we are here and about the benefits of settling in francophone communities. We are in fact competing with our non-francophone partners that receive immigrants and send them to English-language schools, for example. We lose them very quickly.

We are also doing battle elsewhere. That's why it's important for us to go out and and promote our communities. People come to Ontario for English. We receive francophones from some African countries who do not want to settle in Quebec because they already speak French well. So they come to Ontario to learn English. They think that living in an anglophone community and having their children go to English-language schools is the solution.

Ontario's French-language culture and image need to be deconstructed for foreigners.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

An article reported that the refusal rate for foreign students in francophone universities outside Quebec, and in Quebec, was much higher than for English-language universities. Most of those who apply are rejected.

How can that be explained? Is it discrimination? Why is the rejection rate so high?

This refusal rate is closely linked to African countries, like Algeria, which have the largest pools of potential francophone immigrants.

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

x I have a theory about that, but I'm not sure I should really put it forward, unless Dr. Miville or Ms. Djiemeni would like to add something.

Well then, I'll say it today. I will dare to say it here.

The federal government really does have good intentions. I believe sincerely in the federal government's good intentions with respect to francophone immigration. There is a genuine desire to move this forward. There is the community of francophone immigrant student networks and all the programs in the community that we work with every day on behalf of francophone immigrants.

Meanwhile, there is an enormous amount of work to do. We take a small step forward and senior officials take a small step forward, but there's really huge gap. Where's the message about political will? Where is the culture of the departments, the culture of work, the frameworks and everything else? When we say we want francophone refugees, does the message get to the people doing the recruitment in the field so that we can bring them to Cornwall?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think it was Ms. Djiemeni who mentioned that the Department of Immigration has never managed to meet the 4.4% target, since 2008. That means something is not working with the senior officials. Year after year, the targets are not met and we don't see any improvement. And even now, they can't tell us why there are problems.

I would now like to say a little more about possible options. Someone spoke about the importance of a critical mass of francophones. I think that all of the studies have shown that francophone immigrants are settling in areas where there is a critical mass of francophones, which significantly reduces the risk of their being assimilated to English.

Do you think it's important to begin by choosing locations or regions where there is a higher concentration of francophones?

[Brigitte Duguay-Langlais]

I'd say so.

And I haven't in fact managed to finish my testimony, but my last recommendation was that the government set a priority on the 14 communities chosen by Canada to become welcoming francophone communities. The federal government has spent a lot of money to help us become communities. All the departments have begun to do some work in these 14 communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Duguay-Langlais.

You'll be able to continue later.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses here today.

As a francophile from Manitoba, and hence from outside Quebec, I'd like to thank you for your testimony, which truly reflects the messages received from our francophone communities. I believe that it's essential to have concrete recommendations in support of francophone communities outside Quebec.

I'd now like to return to something that was raised by Ms. Duguay-Langlais.

Our committee talked at length about labour shortages in education in francophone communities outside Quebec. I already told my own story to this committee. I explained how we had been trying to enrol our children in a francophone day care centre near us, but that because of labour shortages, the waiting list was rather long. We helped fund qualified staff, but unfortunately, without the support of the federal government. However, there is still a labour shortage. It has proved impossible for my children and the children of many other francophones and francophiles to attend a francophone day care centre. We have no choice but to place them in anglophone day care centres.

We lost an opportunity to educate our children in French. We are now hoping to be able to get them into French kindergarten, but we should also have been able to get them into a French day care centre.

When we speak about francophones abroad, should we set a priority on specific careers in early childhood education?