Official Languages Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 31st meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to the Standing Order of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.

Today's meeting is in hybrid format, pursuant to the motion adopted by the House on June 23, 2022. Members may take part in person or through Zoom.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the videoconference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Please mute your mic when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, those participating through Zoom have the choice, at the bottom of their screen, between three channels: floor, English or French. Members attending in person in the room can use their headset after selecting the channel desired.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Members in the room who wish to speak need only raise their hands. Members participating via the Zoom application must use the “Raise Hand” function. The clerk of the committee and I will do our best to follow the order. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this regard.

Pursuant to our routine motion, I wish to inform the committee that all witnesses have completed the required login tests prior to the meeting.

I would also like to welcome Mr. Brassard, who is replacing Mr. Gourde on the best committee on Parliament Hill.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

That's what all my colleagues have told me. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I would now like to welcome the witnesses.

For our first panel, we have with us today Vanessa Herrick, executive director of the English Language Arts Network Quebec, and Donald Barabé, president of the Ordre des traducteurs, terminologues et interprètes agréés du Québec.

Ms. Herrick and Mr. Barabé, we usually give the witnesses five minutes for their opening remarks. Once the opening remarks are finished, we move on to the rounds of questions. If you don't have time to finish your presentation, you could do so indirectly through your answers to the various questions you'll be asked.

To begin, I'll give the floor to Vanessa Herrick for five minutes.

[Vanessa Herrick, Executive Director, English Language Arts Network Quebec]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me. I'm going to be addressing the room in English today.

However, I will be able to answer your questions in French or English.

My name is Vanessa Herrick, and I'm the executive director of the English Language Arts Network.

We're a not-for-profit organization that connects, supports and creates opportunities for English-speaking artists and cultural workers of all disciplines in every region of Quebec. We share expertise and resources for career advancement, funding opportunities, employment opportunities and calls for participation in the arts. We advocate for our members' interests and make common cause with the francophone community.

I want to start today by thanking the committee for inviting us to present.

We're joining today to share the experience of our community as English speakers in Quebec and to stand as allies with our French-speaking partners and colleagues across the country. The attention being paid to the issue of protecting French in our country is paramount, and we're ready to support and add our efforts to this work in any way that we can. We believe that one community can be raised and celebrated without there being any negative impact on the other. We greatly commend the work being done by the committee and by so many others in the government to ensure that Canada is a country of at least two official languages.

I'm here to speak about the experience of English-speaking artists in Quebec. I have five minutes. I'm going to do my best. I am going to read a fair amount so that I don't miss things that are important. I hate reading when I'm talking to people, so forgive me as I stare at the desk, but I want to make sure that I get through things.

First, I'll speak a bit about artists in Quebec. Quebec is, of course, a province that celebrates its culture and its art. I will give credit. Despite whatever language tensions may exist and may be increasing under Bill 96, we are living under a government that supports the arts, and I want to make that clear. We feel that support.

What is a unique experience for artists in Quebec is that the linguistic divide impacts artists. In 2016, English-speaking artists in the province earned less than their francophone counterparts, making on average a median income of 85 cents for every dollar made by a francophone artist. To make that clear, an artist in Canada—this includes Quebec—makes on average $24,000 a year, while the average median income is closer to $45,000. Already, we're talking about people who are living very precariously.

On the national level, statistics from the 2016 Canadian census show that anglophone artists from Quebec have a lower median income than the rest of the Canadian artists. These findings are especially surprising when considering that nationally, English speakers in Quebec represent a significant portion of Canadian artists. Anglophones in Quebec account for 4.6% of all Canadian artists, despite representing 2.8% of the Canadian labour force. The data indicates that two factors, occupation and language, are related to the discrepancies of income levels of these people.

I want to begin with a bit of a story. This summer, when consultations were being done across the country, I had the great honour to meet and speak with a lot of people who work on this issue. Somebody from the federal government said something to me in conversations around Bill C-13. They said there is no difference between official language minority communities across the country. They face exactly the same thing.

While I recognize that this is a result of the effort for the battle for equity that many official language minority communities have been searching for for years, I don't think that's true. I think the challenges that we face are unique. We both face challenges. However, and I want this to be clear—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have one minute.

[Vanessa Herrick]

Okay.

Unfortunately, English speakers in Quebec are the only official language minority community in the country with a provincial government legislating against them using their language. This is a very clear difference. This is a recent difference, but one that I think needs to be considered.

We don't know for sure how Bill 96 will impact the arts directly. We know, of course, that it will, as it impacts all English speakers in Quebec. We are hearing of discrepancies in the way that the bill will be applied. We don't know any of this for sure yet, but we are hearing that large productions coming from other places to Quebec—mostly American, to be honest—will not be subject to Bill 96.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Can you wrap up, Ms. Herrick, please?

[Vanessa Herrick]

Yes.

We are a community that is facing great challenges coming, and in Bill C-13 I would like to encourage that those.... I recognize that federal legislation is not where provincial language politics should be played out, but I encourage you to keep them in mind when you are reviewing the language and to make sure that the English-speaking community of Quebec is included in a balanced way.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Merci. I know it's tricky. Five minutes is too short, I know, but you will have plenty of time to go through your presentation during questions.

[Vanessa Herrick]

Yes, because I have more notes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Barabé. You have five minutes.

[Donald Barabé, President, Ordre des traducteurs, terminologues et interprètes agréés du Québec]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to give you a number of facts this morning.

The first is that translation plays a vital role in applying the Official Languages Act. It's what allows Canadians to exercise their constitutional right not to speak the other official language. It's at the heart of the social contract, the social fabric of Canada.

The second fact is that a user‑pay concept for translation was put in place in the federal public service in 1995. In effect, departments, which were entitled to free translation from 1841 to 1995, now have to pay for it.

The third fact is that the user‑pay concept has led to major and unforeseen shifts. Departments have stopped translating certain texts, are only doing so on request or are using machine translation or unqualified resources to do so. At the same time, this prevents the Translation Bureau from properly serving Canadians and the federal government.

The fourth fact is that the lack of free funding has resulted in the dispersion of translation budgets across departments. The Government of Canada and Canada are the largest purchasers of translation in the world, proportionately. The dispersion of translation budgets has led to the weakening and fragmentation of the Canadian translation industry, which plays a key role in the application of Canada's official languages policy.

The fifth fact is that the Treasury Board recognizes that the Translation Bureau is no longer able to play its essential stewardship role with respect to the security of the provision of linguistic services to Parliament, courts and the federal government.

The sixth fact is that the Translation Bureau's services are optional and not free of charge, contrary to the Translation Bureau Act, passed in 1934. I will quote the English text of the act because it is clearer.

It says, “The Bureau shall” act for all government departments, agencies, boards and commissions in both Houses of Parliament “in all matters relating to the making and revising of translations”. As well, all the departments, agencies, boards and commissions “shall collaborate with the Bureau”.

The seventh fact is that the Translation Bureau was created in 1934 to put an end to the anarchy that existed within the federal government regarding the management of translation. Unfortunately, this anarchy has returned, and the situation must absolutely be corrected.

The eighth fact is an anomaly, because the private sector does not often speak in favour of government institutions. In this case, the private sector, both in translation and interpretation, is very much in favour of strengthening the Translation Bureau and making better use of the federal government's purchasing power in translation.

The ninth and final fact concerns the former minister of Public Service and Procurement Canada, Judy Foote, who, in February 2017, made a commitment on behalf of the Government of Canada: “It's a new day for the Translation Bureau. We are restoring this institution's reputation. We are turning things around. We have a plan for new management, for succession and ... for making the Translation Bureau mandatory again.”

I'd now like to make four recommendations to the committee.

My first recommendation is to apply what is in the White Paper released by Canadian Heritage in 2021, namely, “to strengthen the role of the translation and interpretation functions within the federal administrative apparatus, notably the Translation Bureau”. That would mean truly enforcing the Translation Bureau Act by making the use of the bureau mandatory again, rather than optional, and by making its services free to departments.

My second recommendation is to give the bureau the same mandate as NASA, which has two mandates: to send Americans to space—a mandate that everyone knows—and to use its purchasing power to help develop the American aerospace industry.

The federal government's purchasing power in translation is the greatest in the world, proportionally speaking, and—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'd ask you to wrap up quickly, Mr. Barabé.

[Donald Barabé]

My last three recommendations are to use the federal government's purchasing power to develop the translation industry, to amend the Official Languages Act to include the importance of translation, and to ensure adequate funding for university training programs in translation and interpretation. As you know, there is a shortage of interpreters and that needs to be addressed.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Barabé.

Thank you both for your opening remarks.

The procedure for the question period is that members will take turns asking you questions, choosing to ask one or the other. During the first round of questions, each member has six minutes, including questions and answers.

We'll begin with the former vice‑chair of the committee, Joël Godin, who now has the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today. It's always nice to see them in person. We're used to virtual, but it will never replace human contact.

My first question is for you, Mr. Barabé.

You said that the Translation Bureau Act had been changed in 1995 to introduce the user‑pay concept. Who was Canada's prime minister in 1995?

[Donald Barabé]

The act wasn't amended, Mr. Godin. It was just an administrative change. The Translation Bureau Act has been unchanged since it was enacted in 1934.

The federal government simply decided, because that was popular with the government—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Barabé, I need to stop you, because you'll understand that our time is very limited.

My question is simple: who was the prime minister of Canada at the time?

[Donald Barabé]

I'm not sure.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It was Jean Chrétien.

[Donald Barabé]

Okay.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So it was the Liberal Party of Canada that was in power.

Mr. Barabé, we're here today to study Bill C‑13, which aims to modernize the Official Languages Act.

You had to finish your speech quickly, but your third recommendation was to amend the Official Languages Act to include the importance of translation. Can you speak more to that, give us the tools required, and perhaps even indicate the wording of the amendments that could be made to the new version of the act?

[Donald Barabé]

I would be pleased to send the wording of these amendments to you later, because I don't have it with me.

As I stated in the first two facts of my speech, translation plays a crucial role in the application of the Official Languages Act. The word “translation” isn't even in the act and should be. I also believe that the act should enshrine the role of the institution that Canada has established to ensure compliance with the purpose of the act, namely, the Translation Bureau.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You also said that the current government made a commitment in 2017 to return to a more accessible—I wouldn't say free because nothing in life is free—use of translation for all federal departments and agencies, in other words, to return to the pre‑1995 formula.

Has this commitment been kept?

[Donald Barabé]

No.