Official Languages Committee on Oct. 6th, 2022

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Would you be in favour of a cyclical update of the list of bilingual regions?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes, I think there are gaps now when it comes to aligning the offices that are supposed to provide services in both official languages, the bilingual offices, with the implementation of the new regulations.

The designated bilingual regions have now been around for 40 years. Extraordinary demographic changes have occurred in the last 40 years. In my opinion, these bilingual offices should be in the designated bilingual regions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

To conclude this round of questions, Mr. Drouin will have the floor for four minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for taking the time to come and see us, Commissioner. I believe your work is important, not just for the francophone community I represent, but also for the francophone communities everywhere in Canada.

I am lucky to represent a number of government employees. I was struck by the question of francophone individuals who hold bilingual positions in a completely anglophone environment, and I think you alluded to that question with Mr. Gourde.

How do you think we should legislate on that question, and how could we ultimately enforce that law, in practice?

[Raymond Théberge]

There is a very practical side to consider. To be able to work in the official language of one's choice, a person must have access to the necessary tools and training in that language, which is not the case at present.

It is worth noting that almost everything is already offered bilingually in what we call "the centre", the departmental headquarters. Very often, people in the regions do not have access to tools and training in the language of their choice. So in the bill, we could include these kinds of things and ensure that a person in a region has access to the "centre's" tools, training and services in the official language of their choice.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I was just getting to the offer of services in French by the machinery of government.

Twenty, 30 or 40 years ago, a majority of francophones in Ottawa lived in the eastern part of the city. Today, they are everywhere in the city. We know the situation is a lot easier in Ottawa. However, in regions where the number of francophones warrants the offer of services in French, but the population is scattered, how is it possible to meet those needs?

We often hear someone ask why services are offered in French when there are only 100 francophones in a small region. In the context of Bill C‑13, how do you think we can continue combining these elements and making sure that these services continue to be offered, knowing that this presents geographic challenges?

[Raymond Théberge]

It is important to align the offices that offer these services with the regions where those francophones live. You are entirely correct to say that there have been major changes.

When I was a student at the University of Ottawa, there were villages with no francophones that have now become towns where there are francophone schools. The concept of vitality is therefore important to keep in mind. We have to not only ask where the francophones are, but also recognize that they have moved over time.

However, services must not be taken away from some people in order to offer them to others. What must be done is to expand the offer of services.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I would like first to quickly address the question of positive measures. They are defined to some extent in Bill C‑13. However, to go even further, do you think we should make them clearer, either in the bill or, to avoid a lengthy legislative process like the one surrounding Bill C‑13, by regulation?

[Raymond Théberge]

It would be useful and important to codify certain elements of the Federal Court of Appeal judgment in the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique case.

However, we obviously need regulations to implement the act, because that is where everything is going to play out. I am thinking of several elements of the act, including Part VII, and in particular administrative monetary penalties and orders.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner and Mr. Drouin.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to raise a question of privilege.

I would like to request the unanimous consent of committee members to invite the Commissioner to stay for another hour.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

If the member would like to invite the Commissioner back, there is nothing to stop him from including him in his witness list. That is not a problem.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Chair, we could settle the question immediately.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, my colleague Mr. Lehoux has asked a clear question. Do we have unanimous consent? I would like that question to be answered before we hear other remarks.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Can the question be repeated?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

It isn't a motion, it's a question of privilege.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, the member is asking for unanimous consent. We just want an answer. The committee needs to make a decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I am going to suspend the meeting to discuss it with the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We are resuming the meeting.

Mr. Théberge, we are pressed for time, but I would like all members to be able to get answers to their questions, so please do not hesitate to send any additional information in writing to our clerk, who will forward it to committee members.

Mr. Lehoux, your question of privilege was not really a question of privilege. I therefore deny your request.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I am again suspending the meeting to give the second panel of witnesses time to get settled.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Resuming the meeting.

I would like to make two comments to the witnesses in the second panel.

Wait for me to call your name before speaking. Given that you are participating in the meeting by videoconference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, or to go on mute when you are not speaking.

Regarding interpretation, for people who are participating by Zoom, you can choose floor, English or French in the channels at the bottom of your screen. For people who are in the room, you can use the headphones and choose the channel you want.

I would remind you that all comments by members and by witnesses must be addressed to the chair.

The witnesses will have five minutes, which will be split in some cases, to give their presentations. They will then be asked questions.

I would now like to welcome the second panel of witnesses.

We have Houston Rifai, a public policy and public administration student and a member of the Youth Advisory Committee, Bishop's Forum. We also have Arielle Warten, a sociology student and also a member of that advisory committee, and Guillaume Rousseau, a full professor in the Faculty of Law, Université de Sherbrooke.

We will begin with Mr. Rifai and Ms. Warten, who will be splitting five minutes' speaking time.

[Arielle Warten, Sociology Student, Youth Advisory Committee, Bishop's Forum, As an Individual]

Good morning, Monsieur Arseneault and members of the committee.

I am Arielle Warten, an English-speaking Quebecker currently attending Concordia University in my third year of sociology. Attending with me today is fellow English-speaking Quebecker Houston Rifai, who will introduce himself shortly.

We represent a group of young English-speaking leaders who attended the Bishop's Forum. The Bishop's Forum is an initiative supported by the Government of Quebec's Secrétariat aux relations avec les Québécois d'expression anglaise.

We are here today to share our perspectives on Bill C‑13, which will have profound effects on young English speakers living in Quebec. We are people who have grown up as members of a linguistic minority, and who plan on continuing to build our lives in Quebec. We are bilingual and bicultural, and want an opportunity to contribute to Canadian and Quebec society.

Our group would like to make a few points regarding Bill C-13.

Over the past five years, public discourse surrounding our official languages has gone from a collaborative, positive discussion to a divisive exercise pitting English and French against each other. Official language rights are now being played in a zero-sum environment, which is ignoring the very real changes faced by English-speaking Quebeckers.

Bill C-13 proposes to include specific mention of the Charter of the French Language within Canada's Official Languages Act. We remind you that as amended by Bill-96, the Charter of the French Language operates notwithstanding the fundamental rights and freedoms of Quebeckers.

Bill C-13 proposes to create new language rights for francophones only with respect to their communications with federally regulated businesses, effectively creating special rights for a majority population instead of a minority population. As young English-speaking Quebeckers, we feel abandoned by the federal government in this proposal.

We are concerned that Bill C-13's emphasis on the protection and promotion of French threatens the duty of federal institutions to take positive measures to enhance the vitality of the English-speaking community of Quebec.

Thank you. We will now hear from Houston Rifai.

[Houston Rifai, Public Policy and Public Administration Student, Youth Advisory Committee, Bishop's Forum, As an Individual]

I thank my colleague.

My name is Houston Rifai. I am active both in social movements and as a student and worker in Quebec. I'm here to share my concerns and the concerns of many young English-speaking Quebeckers about Bill C-13. I do so while fully supporting the elements of the legislation aimed at bolstering minority language communities across Canada but seemingly not here in Quebec.

Everyone here agrees that there is a need to protect and promote the French language in Canada as a whole, particularly where it is in decline. However, French can be promoted and protected in a positive way, without having to suppress the use of other minority languages to achieve this objective.

Quebec’s English-speaking community is not a threat to French in Quebec. More people speak French inside Quebec than ever before, and more young anglophones are bilingual than any community other than francophones outside of Quebec. As English-speaking Quebeckers, we have put in the work to live and learn in French, and our language communities therefore constitute a population that is distinct from the rest of Canada, just as francophones do in Ontario and New Brunswick.

The notion that French is threatened in Quebec often relies on mother tongue indicators and the languages that people speak in the privacy of their own homes and with their families. This exclusionary framing is part of a wider fear-based narrative, which has been reflected in the legislation and in rhetoric from our political leadership.

In just these past few weeks, we've heard from members of our government in Quebec words of contempt towards minority communities and fearmongering against minorities as if they are a threat to the majority. The sentiments of exclusion were echoed by a member of the House of Commons, who stated that the idea of protecting English in Quebec obviously makes absolutely no sense, which the current version of Bill C-13 appears to take to heart.

We propose that protecting the rights of minority languages and minority communities is always good sense, and we ask that you consider protecting the rights of English-speaking Quebeckers as a minority within their own context, just as we ask that the rights of Franco-Ontarians and Acadians be respected and upheld in this legislation. We ask that our government take an active stance against the reduction of rights as seen in anti-charter legislation such as Bill 96 and Bill 21. We implore that you do not make reference to the Charter of the French Language in the Official Languages Act, as we feel that this will allow for more exclusionary and pernicious elements within our political culture to hold sway over federal language policy.

Thank you. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Rifai and Ms. Warten.

I'm so glad that for once I hear witnesses who talk as fast as I do in French, but take your time for the interpreters so they can do their job properly. You can speak slowly.

Mr. Rousseau, the floor is now yours for five minutes.