Official Languages Committee on Nov. 1st, 2022

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The second point of Mr. Godin's subamendment states that amendments to Bill C‑13 must be submitted to the clerk in both official languages no later than 5:00 p.m. on Thursday, November 24, 2022. I propose changing that to December 8. Second, I propose that the amendments be distributed to committee members in both official languages by noon on Friday, December 9, 2022, in writing.

If we want to limit the debate, and if we want to be truly effective, we may need to make some adjustments. I think it's important to do that, if our goal really is to have a discussion, a real debate, and come up with the best possible bill. This means that our views cannot all be pre-determined. It allows us to meet a deadline while still having time to propose our amendments.

Otherwise, it's as though everything is already decided, and we just want to take action.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Are there any questions or comments?

Seeing no one who wishes to speak, I will call the question.

(Subamendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5. [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Beaulieu, go ahead please.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The vote is getting closer and closer. Maybe the results will be better on the next subamendments.

I'll leave the third point as it is; I won't change anything.

The fourth point states that the committee will conduct its clause‑by‑clause consideration of the bill no later than Tuesday, November 29, 2022. I propose instead Tuesday, December 13, at 11:00 a.m.

I think that would give us time to have a real debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It seems to me that, with the motion tabled on November 1 by my colleague Mr. Serré, we are caught in a sort of funnel.

Point 1 indicates that the Minister of Official Languages, the President of the Treasury Board, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship—obviously, the Minister of Canadian Heritage isn't mentioned, although he should be—are invited to appear no later than November 17, 2022.

I would remind all committee members that today is November 15, 2022. So that meeting would take place this Thursday.

Point 2 of Mr. Serré's motion reads as follows:

2. amendments to Bill C-13 be submitted to the clerk in both official languages no later than 5:00 p.m. ET on Thursday, November 17, 2022, and distributed to committee members in both official languages by noon on Friday, November 18, 2022;

Mr. Chair, I feel compelled to say that the best thing that could happen to this committee right now is for my colleague Mr. Serré to withdraw his motion so that we can get on with the real business. So I'm reaching out to him again.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Are there any other comments related to Mr. Beaulieu's third subamendment?

Mr. Beaulieu, please go ahead.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I wanted to add that I agree with what Mr. Godin just said.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You're talking about your subamendment.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We invite people to vote in favour of my subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I won't be withdrawing my motion.

The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne and the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario were clear. We need to get on with our clause‑by‑clause. The deadlines we are currently facing are getting shorter. We could have had a third meeting. The Minister of Immigration and the President of the Treasury Board could have been here this Thursday. I don't understand—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I understand what you're saying, Mr. Serré, but I have to interrupt you because we are debating Mr. Beaulieu's third subamendment.

Mr. Beaulieu, you've also extended the debate a bit beyond your subamendment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Earlier Ms. Ashton pointed out that we shouldn't say things that could be misleading.

Mr. Serré just said that the FCFA and the AFO are in favour of his motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay, but that is not a point of order. We need to stop that right now.

Are there any comments on Mr. Beaulieu's third subamendment?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I hadn't finished.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No, but I am trying to cut you off politely, because it wasn't a point of order.

I'm going to be a little tougher on points of order, because we need to focus on the proposed amendments and subamendments.

Please go ahead, Mr. Godin, on Mr. Beaulieu's subamendment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I feel compelled, as a parliamentarian, to complete my thought regarding the fact that we want to do the right thing and say the right thing. What Mr. Serré said is not entirely true.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I don't wish to open the discussion on that, since this is not a debate.

Seeing no further discussion on this, we'll go to the vote.

We'll have a recorded vote, Madam Clerk.

(Subamendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5. [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Beaulieu, we'll now look at your last subamendment, dealing with the fifth point of the amendments proposed by Mr. Godin.

Go ahead please, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I propose adding:

5. During clause‑by‑clause consideration, amendments related to requests from the Government of Quebec and the francophone minority communities be debated without any time limit before being put to a vote

We say that we want to stand up for the French language and that the federal government has a duty to do just that. However, I find it somewhat deplorable that, for the Liberals, francophones are only those who live outside Quebec, as my colleague Mr. Serré said earlier. It's as though Quebec doesn't even exist. It doesn't matter if Quebec doesn't agree with certain measures.

I have a great deal of respect for the FCFA and the francophone and Acadian communities that are fighting every day just to be able to speak French. These communities can function in French up to a certain point in certain regions, such as the Acadian peninsula, which is perhaps one of the last places where this is possible. I think it's really important to take the time to hear and debate any proposals related to these issues. That is why I'm proposing this fifth point.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Continuing in the same spirit as my colleague, I would add that we want to do the right thing for francophones in Quebec and across Canada.

You are Acadian, Mr. Chair, and there are people here on the committee who are Franco-Ontarians. There is also our francophone colleague from Manitoba, Ms. Ashton.

I think it's important to take the time to get it right.

What bothers the members of our political party is the fact that Mr. Serré's motion limits the time devoted to clause‑by‑clause consideration of the bill. This shows a lack of will, a lack of intention, a lack of listening and a lack of determination to do things right so that Bill C‑13, which amends the Official Languages Act drafted in 1969, can pass and ensure that our country remains bilingual 50 years from now, specifically, with French and English as official languages. That's why I am very much in favour of that aspect of Mr. Beaulieu's subamendment, because we do not want to limit the debate.

As I mentioned earlier, we have not yet heard from witnesses on Part 2 of the act with respect to the use of French in federally regulated private businesses.

According to articles in the Journal de Québec and the Journal de Montréal this morning, businesses like CN and Air Canada are waiting for Bill C‑13 to pass so they can get around French language requirements in Quebec, as Mr. Beaulieu said earlier.

I think this is a very important subamendment. Again, I am reaching out to my colleagues in the other parties, and I invite them to support my colleague's subamendment.

I must say that I'm planning to move a similar motion. You received a notice of motion in advance about this. With this motion, we want to ensure that we are not bullied and that there is no gag order here at the Standing Committee on Official Languages so that we can get this right.