Official Languages Committee on Dec. 6th, 2022

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

First, the legislation starts the conversation every minister is going to need to have, but it also demands accountability and provides transparency, so the public can see the results of the measures we put in place.

It's essential that we increase the number of newcomers to protect and restore the demographic weight of francophones in Canada outside Quebec. However, we can't significantly increase that number overnight because there are no pending applications at IRCC. It's essential that we improve promotion and recruitment and support organizations and institutions.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Pardon me for interrupting, Minister, but time is passing.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The Commissioner of Official Languages and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, the FCFA, which represents many organizations, say that Bill C-13 should focus more on restoring the demographic weight of francophones. We need to offset the declines of the past.

Do you agree with those two organizations, which claim that this bill wouldn't help to meet the established targets or provide you with the tools you need to do so?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's an excellent question, colleague, but your six minutes are up.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister for agreeing to appear before the committee on such short notice, since we had to spend so much time negotiating and adopting the motion.

I want to congratulate you, Minister. On March 28, I said I'd be happy if you could meet the objectives that had been set, particularly since you and I have a shared Scottish heritage. In my case, it's the name of my riding, whereas you have a Scottish surname, like many of your fellow citizens.

You mentioned your parliamentary secretary, who's a Franco-Ontarian, and I know that Franco-Ontarians work in your office, even though they come from the north—I have to back my riding here. I bet they're lawyers sensitive to the importance of achieving francophone immigration objectives.

It seems to me you said you had exceeded the 4% target, didn't you?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, the francophone immigration rate is now greater than 4%. I'm convinced we'll meet the 4.4% target next year and the rate will continue increasing the following year.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

First of all, I want to congratulate you. This is the first time in 20 years that this has happened. I therefore withdraw the remarks I made on March 28. Thank you very much.

You also mentioned that we had opened an office in Yaounde to process these applications and to do promotional work in francophone Africa. I think that's important, since that's where the young people are. We also read this week that the acceptance rate for study visa applications had risen 14% in one year. All that has happened before Bill C-13 is even passed.

What steps have you taken within your department to ensure that the necessary work is done to meet objectives and that francophones have access to our post-secondary institutions?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's very important because international students, in particular, make an enormous economic and social contribution to our communities. When I saw the acceptance rate for students from western Africa, I thought that was a great opportunity for Canada to increase it. That rate has risen from 27% to 41%. However, we can't say "mission accomplished" yet because it's essential that we increase the acceptance rate for students from other regions of Africa. We also have the student direct stream, which can be accessed by students from Senegal and Morocco, and other countries.

We're still improving recruitment and promotion and taking measures to welcome more international students because it's a good thing for both them and Canada as well.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

There's no doubting that progress has been made, and it has happened in a single year. I congratulate you on that.

Now let's discuss Bill C-13. You would obviously have obligations under section 41.1.

What do you think will change within your department if the bill is passed as is?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

This is important because we're developing an ambitious strategy under which we will welcome larger numbers of francophone newcomers. The obligations under Bill C-13 wouldn't be just for me or for now; every future minister would be required to continue developing a strategy on targets, public indicators and departmental obligations over the coming century. If every discussion is an opportunity to consider the demographic weight of francophones, ministers will obviously have to continue ensuring that the number of francophones in Canada outside Quebec increases. That's essential if we want to protect the francophone community.

Without Bill C-13, it would be easy for ministers to say that this is the problem, to have few discussions and to take other measures concerning other immigration issues. Under these statutory obligations, it would be impossible for ministers to forget their duties. It's important to move this bill forward now in order to protect the future of the culture and identity of francophones in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You have a good understanding of the francophone communities outside Quebec. It's important that future ministers and departments protect francophones' rights.

I won't ask you any more questions because I have 20 seconds left.

Thank you very much for being an ally of the francophone communities outside Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin

Before we go to the next speaker, I would like to say that we're maintaining a good pace. We have 25 minutes and 40 seconds until the vote, and Madam Clerk will warn us five minutes before it's time to vote. So you needn't worry. We can suspend the meeting while we vote using the application.

Minister, my colleague Mr. Beaulieu, our second vice-chair, will be asking you the next questions.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[The Acting Chair, Bloc, Mario Beaulieu]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you said that French was declining outside Quebec. Are you aware that it's also declining significantly in Quebec too?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, I've paid attention to the discussion on this issue. When I saw the statistics and considered the areas of jurisdiction, I understood that immigration outside Quebec was mainly an issue for me. Under an agreement that we reached with Quebec, the provincial government has the authority to select people with language skills—

[The Acting Chair, Bloc, Mario Beaulieu]

Pardon me, I'm going to interrupt you.

Yes, we're seeing a significant decline in French in Quebec. Do you acknowledge that francophone immigration is important to Quebec?

One of the main factors that made it possible to improve the situation somewhat was the Couture-Cullen Accord. Other agreements followed enabling Quebec to select immigrants who had knowledge of French.

Do you agree that immigration is also important for Quebec?

That doesn't appear in Bill C-13, but we're going to try to get it included.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think immigration is very important for every community in Canada, both in Quebec and elsewhere. We entered into the Canada-Quebec Accord for that reason. Quebec is empowered to select every newcomer who immigrates for economic reasons and to select levels in all immigrant classes. That's very important, both in and outside Quebec.

[The Acting Chair, Bloc, Mario Beaulieu]

That's correct. The federal government makes considerable use of temporary immigration to Quebec to circumvent the Canada-Quebec Accord. We're seeing that more and more people are being accepted and granted temporary student or temporary worker status, for example, but no language criterion is applied. We're told that 45% of these people only speak English.

Do you agree that we should also find a way to establish linguistic criteria in granting temporary student and temporary worker permits.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Quebec has the authority to grant Quebec acceptance certificates, or CAQs, and to determine who will receive them. There's a federal process and the provincial process, and the Quebec government is now empowered to authorize people to study and work in Quebec.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

According to CBC/Radio-Canada, there appears to have been a minor improvement regarding francophone African students. I'm told that the government has admitted that there's racism at the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. I believe that's true.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Among other things, Quebec grants acceptance certificates, but many of them are denied. For example, Quebec universities and the provincial government accept foreign students, but the federal government rejects many of them.

Are you planning any mechanisms to address that situation?

Furthermore, in many instances, Quebec doesn't know whom it has accepted, as a result of which it's hard to locate those people—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

There were a few aspects to your question.

I don't think an increase in less than one year, from 27% to 41%, is insignificant. I think it's serious and measurable progress. We need to go further, certainly, but I don't think dismissing it as a slight improvement is appropriate or accurate.

Second, I don't think the suggestion that anyone has ignored racism within the department is a fair criticism. I will acknowledge that there has been discrimination within the department. In fact, because we wanted to make sure we were looking inward after the murder of George Floyd in the United States, we decided to conduct the Pollara survey proactively, to identify the problems we had. They were bigger than I anticipated they would be, frankly, and we developed an anti-racism strategy internal to our department to deal with that.

When it comes to the rejection or approval of students who are coming to Canada, each case is still going to be decided on its merits. I think we need to do more to increase the acceptance rate.

We have seen some progress so far. We need to continue to work towards developing a pathway to permanent residency, as was indicated in my mandate letter, in order to make sure.... There are students who are currently being refused on the basis that they're not likely to return home, when we want them to stay as permanent residents. That's an obstacle we can and must overcome. However, it will take some serious policy work, because it represents a fundamental change in the way we process temporary resident applications in Canada. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it; it just means we need to take the time to do it right.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I congratulate you for acknowledging that there has been a racism or discrimination problem. You can't solve a problem if you don't admit it exists.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have less than 10 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.