Official Languages Committee on Dec. 13th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Serré.

The next speaker is Ms. Lattanzio, who will be followed by Ms. Ashton.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, just to make it clear to my colleague who is proposing this, it is an exclusion that he's proposing. We want to take out the parts that I read before to be able to infer the amendment that he is proposing.

If I could address the officials, Mr. Chair, I would like to know what the ramifications are of replacing the paragraphs I have read out with the proposed amendment.

[Julie Boyer]

Thank you for your question.

If I may, I'll continue in French, because my notes are here in French.

As you explained so eloquently a while ago, this is about eliminating references to the well‑being of minority official language communities, the importance of collaboration with the provinces and territories as well as protecting French.

The impact of the amendment would be as follows.

The amendment would make a federal law subordinate to a provincial one. The problem is that this paves the way for other provinces who might seek to do the same thing.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I have a subsequent question.

May I, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Is related exactly to what you're in right now?

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay. Go ahead.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Just to pursue that line of thought, what would you say with regard to the ramifications for recognizing French as a minority situation in the rest of Canada? Does this amendment take that into account or does it not?

[Julie Boyer]

I believe that with the provision being removed, it does not. It introduces this idea of an asymmetrical approach where French is the language in the charter. The legislation that needs to be respected is the charter, in this case.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

In essence, then, it puts into question the symmetry of English and French in Canada. At the same time, it does not recognize that French is in a minority situation across the land and recognizes one linguistic regime over all others across the country.

[Julie Boyer]

That's correct. It does do that.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Madam Ashton, you're next.

Mr. Beaulieu, I did see you. You will get the chance to speak a little later.

Over to you, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to explain our position in the hope of making progress on other issues, because we have here a historic opportunity to amend and improve Bill C‑13.

The NDP, even if it agrees with the spirit of the amendment, is opposed to the withdrawal of certain elements. We wish to state that we are in favour of recognizing the Charter of the French language in Bill C‑13, but we don't want to withdraw the recognition of francophone minorities in other provinces.

I just wanted to let you know our position.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

The speakers are as follows: Mr. Drouin, Mr. Beaulieu, and Mr. Vis, in that order.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to carry on where my colleague, Mr. Serré, left off.

I don't want to take away my other colleague's right to defend his language in his province. I respect that utterly. However, upholding that same right cannot be to the detriment of my Franco‑Ontarian community, the Acadian communities and other communities elsewhere in Canada.

Therefore, I cannot agree that the following passage be completely withdrawn:

recognizing that French is in a minority situation in Canada and North America due to the predominant use of English, is committed to protecting and promoting the French language;

I can't agree with this principle and I can't support what is being proposed.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

Mr. Beaulieu now has the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

First, I want to make it clear that this is in no way intended to weaken the rights of francophone and Acadian communities, on the contrary. What is being removed, particularly in the first paragraph, establishes a symmetry between the francophone and Acadian communities, on the one hand, and anglophones in Quebec, on the other, when they are not at all in the same situation. Several francophone groups outside Quebec said they agreed that there should be a differentiated approach.

We believe that this proposal must be considered in relation to all the amendments submitted. A little further on, we say that we recognize that “English and French linguistic minority communities are present in every province and territory and that the English linguistic minority community in Quebec and the French linguistic minority communities in the other provinces and territories have different needs”.

This principle has always been denounced in Quebec, because in 1969, when the Official Languages Act came into force, anglophones in Quebec were part of the English-Canadian elite, a situation that has continued for a long time. They had universities, schools and hospitals that reflected a majority rather than a minority position. To some extent, the Official Languages Act has helped to maintain these inequities.

We do want the rights of francophone and Acadian communities to be enhanced. Furthermore, I think that Quebec is the province where the rights of the linguistic minority, in this case the historic English-speaking community, are best respected. In fact, they are so well respected that newcomers have come to be anglicized.

It is more in that spirit that we are proposing this. It's in no way intended to weaken francophones outside Quebec. This is reflected in all the amendments that have been put forward, both by the Government of Quebec and the Bloc Québécois. We will see this later on.

What we want to change is this symmetry that is decried just about everywhere. It creates an opposition between Quebeckers and the francophone and Acadian communities, in Quebec at least. By putting anglophones in Quebec and francophone Acadian communities on the same footing, every time they are given a right, the French language in Quebec is weakened, since English in Quebec is strengthened.

This symmetry must be broken down, precisely to create cohesion. I think that francophones outside Quebec and Quebeckers have everything to gain by working together and stopping dividing themselves in this way.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Vis.

Mr. Vis, it's yours.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's no surprise to this committee that I've had issues with the application of provincial law in a federal statute, based on my previous comments, but I was intrigued by Madam Boyer's comments just a minute ago when she talked about an asymmetrical approach to federalism.

I'm wondering about this. If it's the case here that it would be significant to make reference to a provincial statute, then why did the Government of Canada include that same statute in the second part of the bill?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Boyer, the floor is yours.

[Julie Boyer]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Vis.

I think the difference here is that the charter would become the legislation that we have to respect, whereas the reference later in the preamble is to describe the linguistic regime of the different provinces. Here, we're implying that this would apply over the Official Languages Act in Quebec. It would, if I can explain it in a non-technical term, overrule the federal Official Languages Act in Quebec.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That's what I understood the first time.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Godin, who will be followed by Mr. Beaulieu.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I've done the math, and I fully understand that the Liberals and the NDP will vote against my amendment and, as Ms. Ashton mentioned earlier, we're going to speed up the processing of this bill.

I can see where this is going, so I'm asking for unanimous consent for this amendment.