Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Who would like to take this question?

Go ahead, Ms. Boyer.

[Julie Boyer]

Amendement LIB‑20 repeats what is written in the Directive on the Management of Real Property. The directive, which was developed by the Treasury Board, clearly states that its purpose is to address issues of this kind and to ensure that sales or transfers of excess real estate must comply with five conditions, in a specific order.

First of all, they have to be done from a government-wide perspective—they must give consideration to the requirements of other departments; they must then be efficient, equitable and transparent; they must also provide the best possible value for Canadian taxpayers; in addition—listen carefully, because what I'm about to say is important—they must also give consideration to the interests of the communities, including official language minority communities, and other levels of government; lastly, they must comply with all legal obligations with respect to indigenous groups.

In disposing of real property, the directive recommends that a notice be sent out the following order: departments, provinces and territories, official language minority communities, and indigenous groups.

The amendment in question does not place obligations to indigenous groups at the beginning, but this in no way affects the legal obligations we have to indigenous groups.

I hope that answers the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's very clear.

Ms. Ashton, do you have any other questions on this? No? All right.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's a good proposal for francophone and Acadian communities, but there's nothing there for francophone school boards in Quebec, which are experiencing difficult circumstances. French schools, particularly in Montreal, are having to add portable classrooms. There is not enough space. And yet some anglophone schools are empty. Schools are funded by taxes contributed by all Quebeckers. It's an ongoing battle to transfer francophone students to the schools. The government has made one or two such transfers.

As a result, I'm going to have to vote against the amendment. I consider votes to be specific, and that positive measures will continue to contribute to the anglicization of Quebec. Quebec will not be taken into consideration.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'd like to clarify something for my colleague and everyone here in the room. It's true that there is a space problem in Quebec schools. However, the Government of Quebec has jurisdiction over education.

What we are talking about now is giving official language minority organizations access to federal buildings. I believe these are two completely different matters. I just wanted to clarify that.

I proposed a subamendment to amendment LIB‑20. However, I wanted to mention that we had already introduced another amendment that we will not be introducing, because amendment LIB‑20 covers most of what it contains.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I understand.

I'd like to point out that we're still with Mr. Godin's subamendment to amendment LIB‑20.

Madam Clerk, can we proceed with the vote?

(The amendment is defeated: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We are now returning to amendment LIB‑20.

I would like to call the vote—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

No, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I would like to propose a subamendment to amendment LIB‑20, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You can't present a subamendment, because you proposed the amendment.

You can take a few moments to consult your colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We're back.

I think Mr. Serré has twisted his ankle.

You have the floor, Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like just one thing.

Let's look at the English version of amendment LIB‑20. I'm at subclause 41.1(2) as proposed.

Currently the amendment reads, “In taking account the needs and priorities under subsection (1), departments may”.

We are going to remove the word may And make an addition to the sentence.

to read “shall” consult English and French linguistic minority communities.

All that's involved is replacing the word "may" with the word "shall".

Then, in the French version, we would like to have the departments "consultent" francophone minorities rather than "peuvent consulter". It makes the wording of the sentence stronger.

I think we can all agree on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That couldn't be any clearer. I would imagine that this will please Mr. Samson, based on what he said earlier.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chair, it takes unanimous consent, because he is changing his motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No.

Mr. Samson had introduced the motion, but it was a different member who proposed the subamendment.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Can people from the same party amend their…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, if it's done by someone other than the person who moved it.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That will make amendment LIB‑20 stronger, as Mr. Serré pointed out.

To speed things up, let's say that in the English version of LIB‑20, the subamendment would, on the second line of the second paragraph, provide—

“departments shall consult” in place of “departments may consult“.

In the other column, in the French version, it would say that the departments "consultent". The words "peuvent consulter" would be replaced by "consultent".

That then is the essence of the subamendment.

Is that clear to everyone?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

With their subamendment, Mr. Chair, the Liberals are in fact using part of the wording that I tabled and that they voted against.

From what I can see, they want to remove the Canada Lands Company specifically.

That being said, I agree with their suggestion. That is what I suggested in point 2: I removed “may consult” and replaced it with “consult”. That is exactly what they want.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Are there any other comments?

Let us vote on Mr. Serré's subamendment.

(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Are there any further comments on amendment LIB‑20?

I do not see any hands raised, either on the screen or in person.

Let us then vote on amendment LIB‑20 as amended.

(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much.