Official Languages Committee on March 21st, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 54 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to our routine motion, I would like to let the committee members know that everyone did the necessary connection tests before the meeting.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C-13, an act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the use of French in federally regulated private businesses act and to make related amendments to other acts.

I would like to welcome our witnesses. From the Department of Canadian Heritage, we have Julie Boyer, Marcel Fallu and Chantal Terrien. From the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, we have Alain Desruisseaux. From the Department of Justice, we have Warren Newman, and lastly, from the Treasury Board Secretariat, we have Carsten Quell. They are all here today to support the committee and answer any technical questions members may have. I want to thank them for their invaluable assistance.

(On clause 21)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Before we get started, I want to draw the committee's attention to a mistake that was made at the last meeting, when we adopted Liberal amendment 16, as amended by Mr. Godin's subamendment. LIB‑16 is on page 88 of the amendments package.

The French version of the amendment as amended proposed that Bill C-13, in clause 21, be amended by adding after line 23 on page 12 the following:

(iii.1) à assurer le rétablissement et l'accroissement du poids démographique des minorités francophones,

However, a mistake was made in the English version.

It says that Bill C-13, in clause 21, be amended by adding, after line 21 on page 12, the following:

(iii.1) restore and increase of the demographic weight of French linguistic minority communities,

In the English version, the word “of” should have been removed so that the amendment as amended read as follows:

(iii.1) restore and increase the demographic weight of French linguistic minority communities,

Do I have unanimous consent for this minor error to be corrected?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Excellent. Thank you.

Now we can pick up our study where we left off, BQ‑38.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We aren't going to move it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

All right. Bloc Québécois amendment 38 will not be moved.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

That brings us to CPC‑32.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

With Conservative amendment 32, we are again trying to address the whole idea of estimated numbers. I think it's important to correct that language in order to have the most accurate picture of the situation possible.

Under this amendment, Bill C-13, in clause 21, would be amended by replacing lines 31 and 32 on page 13 with the following:

(2) The Minister of Foreign Affairs shall take the measures necessary for the im‑

In other words, where the bill says that “The Minister of Foreign Affairs shall take such measures as that Minister considers appropriate”, the amendment would replace “shall take such measures as that Minister considers appropriate” with “shall take the measures necessary”.

I think it's important to adopt this amendment and demonstrate our desire to put strong provisions in place that will give the Official Languages Act more teeth.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Before we begin discussing the proposed amendment, I want to point out that, if CPC‑32 is adopted, LIB‑20.1 cannot be moved because of a line conflict.

Are there any questions on Conservative amendment 32?

Seeing none, I will call the vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That brings us to Liberal amendment 20.1. It's on page 106.1 of the amendments package.

Over to you, Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is along the same lines as Mr. Godin's amendment, which we just voted on.

LIB 20.1 would amend Bill C-13, in clause 21, by replacing lines 33 to 35 on page 13 with the following:

(2) The Minister of Foreign Affairs shall implement the commitment under subsection (1).

Everyone received a copy of the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think that's a step in the right direction, but since we're going to the trouble of modernizing the Official Languages Act, it would have been better to adopt my amendment.

For the benefit of the people in the room and those following the proceedings virtually, I will again read new subsection 42(1), as proposed by Bill C-13:

42(1) The Government of Canada is committed to advancing the use of English and French in the conduct of Canada’s external affairs and to promoting French as part of Canada’s diplomatic relations.

I want to say how disappointed I am. As I said at the outset, the language being proposed would be stronger than it is now, but weaker than what I had proposed. I'm disappointed, but such is the thrusting and parrying of Parliament, and I have to live with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Are there any other questions?

Since it doesn't look like anyone else wants to comment, I will call the vote.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We are now on the next amendment.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I won't be moving Bloc Québécois amendment 39, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Since BQ‑39 isn't being moved, we'll go to Bloc Québécois amendment 39.1.

Go ahead, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Bloc Québécois amendment 39.1 pertains to the translation bureau.

I am proposing that Bill C-13, in clause 21, be amended by adding after line 13 on page 14 the following:

42.2 (1) The Government of Canada is committed to ensuring that, within one year after this section comes into force, (a) the translation, interpretation, sign-language interpretation and terminology services that the Translation Bureau provides to federal institutions under the Translation Bureau Act are hereafter provided free of charge; (b) the duties and functions set out in subsections 4(1) and (2) of the Translation Bureau Act are carried out; and (c) the Translation Bureau is given the mandate to use the Government of Canada’s purchasing power to develop the Canadian language sector. (2) The Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and the Translation Bureau shall take such measures as they consider appropriate for the implementation of the commitments under subsection (1).

As we speak, the government is violating its own Translation Bureau Act, which says that the bureau's services are to be provided free of charge. Since its services stopped being provided free of charge and departments and other government institutions have been made to pay for those services, many of them have stopped having their documents translated. Some do so only on request. Others rely on machine translation or unqualified resources. Some pay even more for translation services than what the translation bureau charges.

On one hand, what I'm proposing would cost less, and on the other, it would ensure the provision of translation services to the Parliament of Canada in both official languages. If people really care about Parliament's capacity to conduct bilingual proceedings and the availability of those proceedings in French, the committee must support this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Unfortunately, Bloc Québécois amendment 39.1 affects the mandate of the translation bureau and would give the bureau the mandate to use the Government of Canada's purchasing power to develop the Canadian language sector.

Page 772 of the third edition of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice states the following:

Since an amendment may not infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown, it is inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the public treasury, or if it extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications specified in the royal recommendation.

By broadening the translation bureau's mandate, the amendment would infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown and therefore require a royal recommendation. For that reason, the amendment is inadmissible.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'd like to propose a subamendment, Mr. Chair. The subamendment would say exactly the same thing, except proposed paragraph (c) would be removed.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

We are fortunate to have smart people advising us. After consulting with them, I have to tell you that the amendment can no longer be amended because it was ruled inadmissible. You can always challenge the chair's decision, however. I'm a good sport.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Actually, Mr. Chair, I would just like to know whether I can put forward a new amendment that would contain exactly the same wording except for proposed paragraph (c).

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I think you can, and I've just been told that you can.

First, though, I have to give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu to see whether he wishes to appeal the chair's decision.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That won't be necessary as long as a new amendment is proposed.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It's not for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Is the chair's decision being challenged, yes or no? If not, we are going to move on.