Official Languages Committee on June 2nd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Samson. Your time is up. Time flies, I know.

The next two questions will be two and a half minutes each.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'll let my friends from the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada finish answering.

[Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

We've certainly reached the 4.4% target, but what have we done better? We've certainly reduced waiting lists. But have we been innovative enough to exceed expectations? You know, I was a journalist when the 4.2% target was proposed, a long time ago. I'm delighted that we've achieved it. In fact, I was present on the day of the announcement...

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In terms of integrating language transfers for new arrivals and francophones, do you take this factor into consideration?

[Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko]

Absolutely. I'd like to come back to the question you asked us earlier, Mr. Beaulieu. You asked us whether we were taking assimilation into consideration. Assimilation is certainly one reality, but there's another. I stand before you, the father of two children who were born in Ontario, who are Franco-Ontarian and who speak French. The reality of life in French still exists in our communities. Assimilation is certainly present, but the vitality of the communities still exists.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We can tell a lot of anecdotes, but when it comes to figures from scientific studies—

[Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko]

Those are facts too.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

All right, but it's the numbers that interest me.

What we see is that over 99% of language transfers by allophones or newcomers are to English. In the case of francophones, it's over 40% or 42%, and this rate increases with each census. In my opinion, this is a factor that needs to be taken into account.

We also have to take into account where immigrants are going to live, something we don't always consider. When they go to live in areas where there are no services in French—and there are many of them—it's hard to imagine that they'll continue to live in French and integrate French into their...

[Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko]

I'll let Mr. Dupuis answer the question.

[Alain Dupuis]

It's a challenge, but it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg debate. If we don't have immigration, the vitality of our communities is not assured, nor is the maintenance of French-language services. For our part, we believe in it, and we think that immigrants should be included and sent to communities where there is vitality.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Dupuis. That's all the time we have, unfortunately.

Mr. Johns, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Sacko, can you identify in which sub-Saharan countries you think we need additional consular services? Can you also tell us about the challenges immigrants have with their immigration processes, and maybe add if long wait times influence the decision of immigrants to emigrate to Canada?

[Bintou Sacko]

Thank you for the question.

I'm going to name a few French-speaking countries in sub-Saharan Africa, but it's not an exhaustive list: Côte d'Ivoire, Senegal, Cameroon, Guinea, Mauritania, Niger and Burkina Faso. None of these countries has consular capacity or what it takes to serve people. The inhabitants of these countries are practically all served by the Dakar office.

One problem is access to Canadian embassies or consulates, which is difficult for prospective immigrants. It's not easy to pass through, enter or request services. Sometimes you have to call a number, which may not be accessible to everyone, especially when we're talking about toll-free numbers in Africa. As a result, people can't find out how their file will be processed, which can take a very long time if it's handled by a consulate. These people have no way of contacting the consulate to find out the status of their file, and this discourages some people. It can be very difficult and time-consuming.

Another problem is the availability of services. If you always have to rely on an embassy located in another country to obtain your visa, where shipping costs are very high, it becomes very complicated for the future immigrant. Some of them wait three or four years for an answer, which is discouraging.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mrs. Sacko.

For the next two rounds, the allotted time will be five minutes.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to all the witnesses. Thank you for being here.

Mrs. Sacko, I'm going to follow up on what you were saying. I'll give you a brief background. In CEGEPs in Quebec, we're having trouble with the acceptability and acceptance of African students, in particular. You talked a lot about the consular services that are offered from one country to another. In your opinion, how can service be improved or extended within consulates or in certain regions or countries in Africa, so that Canada can better help these people come to us?

[Bintou Sacko]

Thank you for the question.

As I said in my opening remarks, I think embassies need to work with French-speaking communities. Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada must properly align its practices with francophone immigration objectives. I think Alain Dupuis and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada have often mentioned this. As I said, the communities are working hard to promote and recruit, as well as to help immigrants settle in Canada.

Extending consular services to countries where they don't exist doesn't just involve Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. Other ministries are also involved in this process, and these ministries must determine where services are lacking.

I mentioned the Canadian embassy in Côte d'Ivoire or Senegal. Isn't it time to bring back, little by little, the services that have been abolished or, in some cases, never existed, so that people can access these services directly in their own country? We could also set up a telephone hotline where people could call to find out the status of their case. After two or three years of waiting, some applicants still haven't received an answer, and are simply told that their application is being processed. People don't know who to contact for information. These services could be offered by consulates, which would help or encourage people, especially in Africa.

In Quebec, as far as CEGEP students are concerned, there has been a lot of media coverage of the fact that the system leads to many systematic refusals. Yet many of our applicants come from French-speaking sub-Saharan Africa.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

One of the reasons given for refusal is that these students, it seems, are unable to prove that they have the money to support themselves and pay their tuition fees during their three-year stay here. Yet CEGEPs have notarized documents proving that these students have $100,000 in their bank accounts in Africa. Yet these students have their applications denied in a response that I imagine is automated.

I'm not sure what's going on here, and we really need to look into this. How is it that a student, through his parents, is able to prove that he has $100,000 in his bank account, but is told that he can't come to Canada because he can't support himself? Something's not right here. This reason is not valid, it can't be.

I don't have much time left. I don't know if you want to conclude there, Mrs. Sacko.

[Bintou Sacko]

Of course.

It's not a reality, unfortunately. There's also a lot of evidence that applications have been turned down for no financial reason whatsoever. Sometimes the files have not even been checked; all the evidence and documents have been provided, but the files have never been processed.

That's why we're proposing the creation of ombudsman or audit offices. When an officer makes a decision, there's no way to overturn it. There is no way to verify the veracity of the elements on which the officer based his decision to refuse an application. There is no recourse. Maybe it's time to have recourse for people whose applications are refused arbitrarily, so that we can at least review their files.

Sometimes these people approach federal MPs through acquaintances they have in Canada, or ask family members to plead their case with federal MPs, so that their file can be processed. It's a long and arduous process, which could be avoided by creating a mechanism to allow people to check what's going on. These subjective decisions have a huge impact on their lives.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Sacko.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

Ms. Abdi Aden, what measures should the government take to increase its drawing power?

[Roukya Abdi Aden]

Canada attracts a lot of people. It doesn't need to promote itself to attract French-speaking immigrants. You only have to go to Africa to realize that many people want to leave their country to come to Canada.

It's more a question of attracting the people we want. Let's not forget that, at its core, the immigration system serves economic purposes. Canada looks for people to come and work here. This is the raison d'être of our immigration system. Today, labour needs are widespread. There are sectors that are more in need of labour—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt, madam. I understand what you're saying, but is there something missing in the way we're advertising? The acceptance process will be accelerated for certain types of candidates. Many people would like to come here, but not all will be accepted. What should the government focus on to attract candidates who will be accepted more quickly because they have the skills we're looking for?

[Roukya Abdi Aden]

One example that has just been implemented is the results-based system. With its Express Entry programs, the government has just put in place a system that will recruit people with the skills Canada needs.

In the countries where Canada promotes itself, we also need to inform people about our labour needs. That way, the people we're looking for will be more likely to apply. It's not enough to say that Canada is a beautiful, bilingual country. We have to say what our workforce needs are and what skills we're looking for.

We need to set up partnership programs with certain countries. Other countries, such as Germany, have several partnership programs with certain French-speaking countries to attract people with the skills they're looking for.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Meggs, can you tell us about the pools from which French-speaking immigrants are most often sought, and what is being done to attract them to Canada?