Official Languages Committee on June 9th, 2023

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You only mentioned Cameroon. Can you mention a second country?

[Olivier Jacques]

For the first few months of 2023, the top five countries of origin for French-speaking permanent residents were Cameroon, France, Morocco, Algeria and Congo. That gives you an idea.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Desruisseaux, can you tell us about the collaboration between the federal government and other levels of government on francophone immigration? How could we work better with other levels of government to increase francophone immigration?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

This work is already under way. We work well together. We want to mobilize our partners more. Some partners are very committed.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Could you tell us which ones are very committed and which ones aren't?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

I can tell you that the Ontario and New Brunswick governments are very committed, and we have other partners—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What about the Quebec government?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

The Quebec government is very committed, of course. I don't talk about it as much because we're mainly talking about francophone immigration outside Quebec, but we have a very good working relationship with the Quebec government.

In the agreements we're negotiating with the Ontario and New Brunswick governments, there have long been annexes concerning francophone immigration. This is something we're looking at with other governments as well, to apply a francophone lens from the outset, and to better promote the economic opportunities associated with francophone immigration. These discussions are already well under way with several partners. I won't point the finger at anyone, but I can say that some stakeholders aren't very interested in francophone immigration in general. That said, they're doing more and more, so we're making good progress.

A federal-provincial working group on francophone immigration outside Quebec is already in place, and I mentioned earlier that we intend to revitalize it a little. We're also looking at governance, an area of great interest to our counterparts at the Ministers' Council on the Canadian Francophonie. We're going to want to ensure close communication between the various working groups, since this is an objective that involves all stakeholders. This is a very horizontal issue, and the contribution of the provinces and territories will be essential. So there's no doubt that collaboration is critical.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desruisseaux and Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Earlier, you said that the rate of refusal of temporary permits to African students was due to the fact that African students make more fraudulent applications for study permits than other applicants. They're applying for a study permit when they're actually applying for something else. Did I understand correctly?

[Olivier Jacques]

Yes. I mentioned three reasons for this refusal rate: the high number of fraudulent applications, insufficient funds and the genuine intention to study in Canada, what we call good faith.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Did you say that there are more cases of fraud among African students who apply?

[Olivier Jacques]

That's not what I said. I don't have the figures to know whether, of all the students in the world, it's African students who make the most fraudulent applications. What I did say was that there are regular cases of fraudulent applications from African students. However, this is also the case in other parts of the world.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You say we're rejecting more applications from African students.

[Olivier Jacques]

That's one of the reasons why there are more rejections.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's not clear.

I told you about a Radio-Canada article that mentions a study by the Institut du Québec. According to this study, the refusal rate in Quebec is higher than in other provinces, such as Ontario or British Columbia. But you're telling us this isn't true. Can you send the committee some figures on this?

[Olivier Jacques]

Yes, we could send you some figures. However, we'd have to agree on the wording of exactly what you want. Of course, we'd be happy to provide you with statistics to that effect.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay, you can send us that.

My other question—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have five seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In that case, I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Mr. Jacques, you said that Cameroon is currently the main source of francophone immigrants. Our country wants to welcome immigrants, and there's a great deal of interest in Canada. People come here, but on the other hand, the government refuses to increase diplomatic services in Yaoundé, Cameroon, and prefers to entrust consular services in Dakar with the processing of applications from Cameroon and several other countries.

Would it be important to increase consular services in Cameroon, given that this is a priority immigrant pool for Canada?

[Olivier Jacques]

In 2022, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada opened a visa office in Yaoundé, Cameroon, with two employees, two Canadian diplomats. This recognizes the importance of this potential recruitment pool for Canada. The office will promote francophone immigration. It will also print visas and place them in passports.

The processing of applications from Cameroon, which are electronic applications, can be divided between different offices. Some applications can be processed by our colleagues in Dakar. To be more equitable, the department can also take advantage of its network to process applications in parallel, which would bring processing times down to the global average. Adding resources in Cameroon would not have a direct impact on speeding up the processing of applications.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for this information.

Given the ambitious targets that Canada has set for itself, two people seem to me to be insufficient. We want to make sure we have the capacity to accommodate these people in our offices.

Is that—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Ashton, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but your time is up and there's not much time left before we have to move on to Mr. Godin's motion.

As chair of the committee, I don't usually ask questions, but today I'm going to.

Mr. Jacques, the members have asked you many questions. Can you send written answers to the committee? Often, the questions are short, but time is short. What's more, I sometimes have to interrupt members or witnesses, because I have to ensure that the time allotted to committee members is respected.

You mentioned the three main reasons why applications from French-speaking Africa are rejected: fraud, bad faith and lack of funds. With regard to bad faith, you said that 80% of applicants who should have studied at the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières had done something else. As for the lack of funds, you said that people didn't have enough money to stay in Canada. I'd like you to provide the committee with the details of those three main reasons. Obviously, if there are others, the committee would like to know about them.

In particular, I'd like more details on this fraud, what it is exactly, and how to confirm it. As for bad faith, how did you determine that only 20% of students really came to study, but the rest didn't come to study or were doing something else? Anyway, you understand what I'm asking. I'd like you to provide the committee with all the information in this regard.

In addition, in response to a question from Mr. Godin, you gave the example of a Gabonese who applies for immigration, but this example could apply to anyone from any French-speaking African country. When that person enters the system, they can be “drafted”, which is the term you used, if memory serves. When it comes to hockey, I know what “being drafted” means, but I'm not sure what it means when it comes to immigration. Can you explain it to me and tell me what it means? Who is more likely to be drafted or not? I'd like you to send your answers to the committee.

Finally, having heard the answers given to the various questions posed by members, I have come to the conclusion that there seems to be a lack of points of service where French-speaking Africans can apply and express their desire to come to Canada. Where in French-speaking Africa do you think services related to immigrant applications should be improved? You mentioned Madagascar, but you said you didn't know the situation there very well. It's a long way from our usual offices.

Those are the questions I'd like to have answered in writing. Have I made myself clear or would you like me to repeat them?