Official Languages Committee on June 9th, 2023

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'll finish what I was saying first.

Given the current rules governing hybrid Parliament, Ms. Ashton, I can't give you the floor. It's a matter of hearing safety. I'm told there are interpretation problems.

I know that yesterday you spoke in the House of Commons and that everything was fine. However, I'm not a technician, I'm just the chair. I'm sorry. I feel bad, but that's all I can do.

Mr. Dalton, I'm listening.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

What Ms. Ashton says, whether in English or French, will be interpreted, won't it?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No. The problem is that there is no simultaneous interpretation of what she is saying at the moment.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay.

Personally, I think the sound is as good for her as it is for everyone else. I think it's also a question of members' privileges. So it's a very difficult situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Dalton, I think everyone here agrees with you.

I'll now give the floor to Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Chair, all I would say is that I was refused because the quality of my sound was not good. I subsequently had to do tests with IT.

I think we have to be consistent in our rules, even though I agree that this is egregious for your privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I understand what Ms. Ashton is saying. What I'm proposing is that we give her time to send us her questions in writing, so that we can ask them for her a little later. I don't know if there would be unanimous consent for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Ashton, I think that's the ideal solution. I know you're the only one here representing the New Democratic Party. I understand that. I'll hold your six minutes in reserve until the end of this meeting. I think we have unanimous consent. What I would suggest is that you send your questions to your assistant, who is here, and I'll ask them for you.

We'll move on to the next five-minute period.

Ms. Gladu, you have the floor.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

In terms of trying to increase the number of francophone immigrants we have, we have to address getting supply. We've heard that the maximum French population in the world is at 20%, so I think there is something to be done there. Then actually getting them into jobs once they get here, and then talking about what else we can do....

Let me start by asking whether or not.... We have a weighting in the immigration system that we increased in 2017. We give them additional points if they speak French, and there has been some positive result from that. Do we need to increase that weighting more?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

Increasing francophone immigration admissions is at the heart of our intention. We look at all the measures, including the one you mentioned. We note that admissions have increased considerably. Our projections suggest that they will continue to increase. The target was reached last year, and there is every indication that it will be reached this year, if not exceeded. It's a measure that has paid off.

There's also the express entry program that was just put in place and has a lot of potential. It's too early to estimate the impact it will have, but we expect it to have a significant positive impact. We know that the new ensemble-based approach will give us more flexibility to support this increase in the future. I can't explain it to you myself, as it was my policy colleagues who developed this new system. We're looking at the whole package, and this new system is one of them.

As far as the action plan for official languages is concerned, the recent announcements pave the way for new, reinforced measures. The department is also looking at how the reforms in the pipeline can support it in this direction.

So it's an integrated, holistic approach that we're putting forward. I can say that francophone immigration is a top departmental priority, and it's part of all our measures.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

That's very good. Thank you.

I also think that we increased the target to 4.4%. I believe the target really should be increased even further, as much as 20%, because we're losing ground.

The next thing I want to talk about is the credential recognition. We've heard that French teachers and medical workers who are coming are not getting their credentials recognized. Is the federal government doing anything to work on that issue?

[Alain Desruisseaux]

That's something we heard a lot during the public consultations we held last year to develop the measures in the action plan. It was a recurring concern, particularly for teachers, but it also affects several other professions. This is true for the whole country.

Discussions are under way. Obviously, this involves several departments as well as the provinces. It's really a horizontal issue. It's outside my area of responsibility, but I know that discussions are ongoing with EDSC, and the provinces and territories to see how this issue can be addressed. It's not a simple matter, unfortunately.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

No, it's not simple.

My final two questions are for Mr. Jacques.

If you could submit to the clerk any best practices that you see from other areas in the world that we should be leveraging here in Canada, that would be great.

Then, second, I see that you're going to Cameroon for Destination Canada. This is good, because we've heard of a lot of problems there. There are not very many service centres to process people. There are people living quite long distances away. What would it take to increase the number of these Destination Canada trips and expositions in Africa?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Madam Gladu, this is an excellent question, but it's beyond your five minutes. Hopefully our witnesses will be able to answer that later on.

Mrs. Lalonde, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It's a real pleasure for me to be on this committee to talk about francophone immigration, a subject that's very close to my heart. I'm proud to replace my colleague Mr. Serré.

It's important to note that, for the first time in several years, the 4.4% target has been reached. This was no miracle; it's because we've made constant efforts in recent years.

I'd like you to tell me what measures have been taken to help restore our demographic weight, or at least to reach this target. I know it's not enough, but at least our government has achieved it.

[Alain Desruisseaux]

It's a whole series of measures. Just think of the most recent action plan for official languages, which allocates us $137 million. So, just in terms of investments, there's $137 million over five years. This is in addition to the 2013-18 action plan, which invested $29.4 million over five years, including an ongoing amount of $5.9 million, and the 2018-23 action plan, which invested $40.7 million over five years, including an ongoing amount of $10 million.

Behind all this are major investments, to which are added certain programs, of course.

For example, I'm thinking of the IRCC settlement program, which has made a major contribution to certain measures.

We can also think of everything that has been done in terms of promotion. Mr. Jacques mentioned Destination Canada. That's one of the measures, but there are many other activities. A lot of awareness-raising is going on in Canada, particularly with employers. Our colleagues in the national network are doing very important work in this area.

When it comes to working with communities, the creation of the Réseaux en immigration francophone and the launch of the welcoming francophone communities initiative have been major steps forward. This initiative was cited as an example during all the public consultations, which led us, when drawing up the measures in the action plan, to focus on strengthening and expanding this initiative, which is really bearing fruit.

What's more, with the new measures, we're even more interested in what can be done to support recruitment and selection, and to involve francophone communities in this exercise. In particular, we want to bring communities into closer partnership with the designated entities involved in selection. This is a promising avenue. So that's something we're looking at.

I was also talking earlier about the programming of the Centre for Innovation in Francophone Immigration in Dieppe. A large part of this centre's objective is to create these partnerships. In terms of organizations eligible for the program, we hope to be able to put in place a fairly broad eligibility regime. We're thinking of not-for-profit organizations. I mentioned the welcoming francophone communities initiative. That's one example. The provinces, territories and municipalities are also involved.

In achieving this objective, we also want to see how certain initiatives will facilitate the transition of temporary residents to permanent resident status. We hope that the new program will enable us to do more in this direction, with the collaboration of the education community. There's a lot of potential.

I'll stop there.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

I know that the new 2023-28 action plan, which you mentioned, includes historic investments of $4.1 billion.

For the rest of my time, you'll excuse me for not asking any more questions. Instead, I wanted to comment on my colleague's question about the importance of helping with the workforce.

In fact, in the last 24 to 48 hours, the government has made a very important announcement about the process for recognizing the credentials of foreign-trained health care professionals and promoting physician mobility. Minister Duclos, on behalf of Minister Qualtrough, announced investments of $78.5 million in this regard.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mrs. Lalonde. Time flies.

We'll now go to Mr. Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'd like to give the witness a chance to answer my question from earlier. Can he explain why the refusal rate is higher in Quebec than in other provinces, and tell us more about the refusal criteria?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Jacques, the floor is yours.

[Olivier Jacques]

As I said earlier, it appears from our statistics that the approval rate for applications from French-speaking African countries submitted in Quebec is similar to that for applications submitted in other Canadian provinces. That said, I'd like to give you three reasons why applications from African applicants are more often refused than others.

The first reason is the frequency of fraud in acceptance letters from Canadian educational institutions and in bank documents sent. Obviously, we have no tolerance for fraud.

The second reason is the difficulty of knowing whether students are acting in good faith, meaning whether they are really going to study in Canada. Sometimes students applying for a study permit don't want to study in Canada, but rather do something else. When this is detected by our visa officers, the application is refused.

To illustrate my point, I can tell you that we conducted a study in collaboration with the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières to understand the situation of certain Algerian students. We realized that, of all the Algerian students attending this university and to whom we had granted a study permit, only 20% had registered for courses in the September academic session. The remaining 80% had not done what they were supposed to. This is one of the reasons for the refusals.

The third and final main reason why applicants are most often turned down is funding. Studying in Canada is a costly endeavour. It's expensive for foreign students to study in Canada, with tuition fees higher than those charged to Canadian citizens, not to mention housing costs.

These are the three main reasons for refusal.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Jacques.

While we're waiting for Ms. Ashton to reconnect to the meeting from her constituency office, hoping that the connection there is better, I'll reserve her two and a half minutes and give the floor to Mr. Godin for five minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I heard my colleague Mrs. Lalonde say earlier that the government had reached its target of 4.4% francophone immigration. That's not going to help restore the demographic weight of francophones in Canada. There's a lot to be done, and we need to increase this target if we want to catch up. I'm not impressed by the government's achievement.

Mr. Jacques, you are the area director for southern Europe and Maghreb. Is there a director for the rest of Africa?