Evidence of meeting #67 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veronis.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Joël Godin
Thank you, Mr. Normand.
I thank you all for this round of questions and answers.
I now give the floor to Marc Dalton for five minutes.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Veronis, you mentioned the opening of the immigration office in Cameroon. That's all very well, but the problem is that many applications are submitted online, and we seem to go around in circles when navigating the IRCC website. This makes things difficult. Here in Canada, I often find it difficult to do things online. It's a real problem.
Do you have any idea how many people give up on applying for immigration because of these problems?
6:05 p.m.
Associate Professor, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I have no idea. I don't know if it's even measurable. One could imagine calculating the number of applications by country of origin; that would give a percentage of people who did not manage to apply.
On the other hand, there are other repercussions. People don't give up. They work very hard. I've been surprised by the number of people from Africa who have been ripped off and contacted me. In that context, they may no longer have the money to submit a legitimate application.
Unfortunately, I can't give you a better answer. I can't measure what you're talking about. I haven't done the work.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Do people have the option of calling in and receiving help over the telephone?
6:05 p.m.
Associate Professor, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
No, there is no telephone assistance.
I don't think people can call unless they've submitted an application, received a number and been assigned an officer. Otherwise, there's no one to interact with.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
You've also had problems with this, haven't you?
6:05 p.m.
Associate Professor, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I went to the website, as I was trying to help someone who asked me about the categories and how to apply. So I went to see for myself. I was clicking and going around in circles.
The other difficulty is the number of categories that exist: permanent, temporary, student, this kind of a permit, that kind of a permit. It's very complicated for someone from Africa, who operates differently and doesn't have the same information culture.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
That's right. We really need to simplify this.
You also talked about pre-departure services. Can you tell us more about that?
6:05 p.m.
Associate Professor, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
The government has invested an enormous amount of money to make these services available to people who have obtained permanent residence, but are waiting for visas, papers or the time when they will leave their country.
Many are unaware that pre-departure services exist. Sometimes there's a time lapse before arriving in the country. For example, during the pandemic, people couldn't come right away. So they waited, but they didn't know these services existed. These services are fantastic. I've interviewed people who have told me that, had they known, they would have prepared their Canadian resumés or taken workshops on how to do interviews before coming here.
As I understand it, people receive a message or a letter. At the very bottom of the document, in small print, it says that they have access to pre-departure services, but a lot of people don't see that. By the time they receive the letter, they're preoccupied with selling their house, disposing of their belongings, filling out paperwork, enrolling in school, and so on. There are so many things to do, but they don't see that part. I didn't receive this letter. I don't know what it looks like.
The fact that there are pre-departure services should be communicated much more clearly. This can help people prepare before they come here where they start paying rent and wait to find a job. There's also the issue of the Canadian experience and the challenges of the job market.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
I think this program could be used to support the system.
Mr. Viglione, do you have anything to add?
6:05 p.m.
Director General, Multicultural Association Chaleur Region
I wanted to add to Ms. Veronis's information.
I received an email regarding pre-departure services. It clearly explained that, while the visa office was preparing to issue my visa to arrive in Canada, I could start taking advantage of pre-departure services. Even from abroad, I was able to attend virtual job fairs. So I was able to take advantage of services before arriving.
I have to say that the email does provide good explanations.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Joël Godin
Thank you, Mr. Dalton.
Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.
September 27th, 2023 / 6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Normand, can you tell the committee how francophone immigrants can be taught to live and work in an anglophone environment without being pressured to focus on English?
6:10 p.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Well, our institutions take in temporary residents, not immigrants. We can't just ignore English; that would be impossible.
Take, for example, someone studying in a co‑op program or for a regulated occupation that requires an internship. It's reasonable to expect those candidates to be fluent in English once they're in the job market to complete an internship, whether it's because most of the clientele speaks English or because the employers are anglophone and those are the only internships available.
For international students from a country where English is not spoken who come to minority communities in Canada, provisions must be made for them to achieve a certain level of competency in English so they can achieve successful economic integration.
One thing to keep in mind is that, in addition to enabling these students to learn English, our institutions also have to support employers, the public sector and community organizations and help them understand the added value that bilingual professionals bring to their workplaces, which may serve disadvantaged individuals or clients they wouldn't otherwise be able to connect with.
That support has to be available to international students, but it also has to be available to the host community to ensure successful economic integration.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Viglione, how do you think the Government of Canada can help encourage entrepreneurship among francophone immigrants?
6:10 p.m.
Director General, Multicultural Association Chaleur Region
Here in New Brunswick, we have an organization called La Ruche, which is part of our association. Experts there offer mentorship programs to newcomers who want to start a business. We provide the tools and services they need to understand the Canadian system and get off the ground faster.
I think it's a very good tool. Since April 2023, we've been helping seven francophone immigrant entrepreneurs, including former students, start businesses in the region. I think our program, which is also available in four other regions around the province, is a very good tool.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Veronis, what specific measures could the Government of Canada implement to help francophone immigrants in minority communities learn and retain French?
6:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
If they're francophone immigrants, I would imagine their French is already pretty good. I'd like to add to my response earlier. If we want to make sure that francophone immigrants can maintain or improve their French, we need to enable them to live and receive services in French. We need to ensure institutional completeness.
During the pandemic, lots of people who had learned French lost it because of the circumstances. It all ties into the earlier discussion about the territorial aspect and communities. If the conditions are right for people to live their lives in French, they'll participate and maintain their language. Sometimes a job in English is inevitable, but these people can live their lives in both languages. Francophones in minority communities live in both languages. Nobody tells them not to speak English or not to work in an English-speaking workplace.
People talked about bilingualism. The idea is to make sure people have the opportunity to live in both languages.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Joël Godin
Let's start the fourth round of questions. The Conservative Party and the Liberal Party will get three minutes each; the Bloc Québécois and the NDP will get a minute and a half each.
Mrs. Goodridge, you have three minutes.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Thank you very much.
My first question is for Mr. Normand.
When you testified at the Senate Committee on Official Languages, you talked about the high rate of denial for permit applications from francophone international students, especially those from African countries.
Since then, do you think IRCC has made any progress when it comes to eliminating certain administrative barriers?
6:15 p.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
For sure. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it.
As I said in my speech, in September 2022, we observed an improvement in the acceptance rate for study permit applications from African applicants. That increase was more apparent in Quebec than in other francophone institutions in Canada, so we have to figure out what accounts for that difference. There has been progress, though. We don't have the numbers for this school year yet, but I'll work with the IRCC to get that information. On the ground, however, our institutions seem to think things have improved again this year.
One reason for the difference might be that the agents who make decisions to grant visas don't all know our network of institutions. That should be very easy to remedy. As I've said elsewhere, study permits have been denied because agents didn't think people had legitimate reasons for wanting to pursue post-secondary studies in French outside Quebec.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Thank you. I understand what you're saying. I myself studied in a minority context at Campus Saint‑Jean in Edmonton, and lots of people didn't know there was a francophone neighbourhood.
How do you promote francophone institutions outside Quebec?
6:15 p.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
In recent years, we've provided lots of training to IRCC and Global Affairs Canada staff. In an international education context, Global Affairs Canada has to be part of the equation. We offered training about our network of institutions, and we think that had an impact on the study permit application approval rate. We know there have been directives within IRCC to ensure people are familiar with our institutions. Just last week, I delivered two training sessions to education trade commissioners in Europe to ensure they're familiar with our network of institutions. If they have any questions about it, they all have my email now.
This kind of one-off initiative can have a huge impact on the entire public service, which makes decisions and promotes post-secondary education in Canada.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Joël Godin
Thank you, Mrs. Goodridge. You're out of time.
Thank you, Mr. Normand.
Mr. Serré, over to you.