Official Languages Committee on Sept. 27th, 2023

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

I absolutely agree.

The objective is to provide support across the country. Consequently, we can't choose the place. Certain communities may be better off than others, but it's precisely the ones that are less well off that are more in need.

There are other options, such as pre-departure services. We need more matching. I think employment is the major challenge, especially in the small communities where there are no institutions where people can work in French, for example. Consequently, immigrants should have access to pre-departure services before arriving here so they can avoid all the issues that delay integration, such as excessive rents, the cost of living and so on.

There's also the language issue. Applicants should be given more information about what the communities are really like. I think family reunification, particularly in less well off communities, could also be a support because people arriving thus already have someone. That can facilitate employment in the family business, for example.

So there are many measures that can be introduced on a case‑by‑case basis, and surprises can occur. That's the beauty of immigration: people's creativity, the way they adapt and their results, like those that Mr. Viglione mentioned.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In that case, would you consider promoting family reunification for francophone immigrants as well?

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

I definitely think it should be supported.

We know from various studies that family separation harms people, both here and in their home country, for all kinds of reasons. Family reunification should therefore be reinforced, expedited and simplified. Instead of raising complications and delaying files, simplifying the process could create the best integration conditions for families that are reunited. That would also help avoid problems such as living in a community that lacks services and institutions.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's excellent.

I understand the distinction you're making, to the extent that we don't want to harm places that have no francophone institutions. However concentrating francophone immigration in regions where there are more francophones and francophone institutions could strengthen those regions without however excluding regions where there are fewer people. That might nevertheless spill over to other regions and facilitate matters.

I don't know whether you agree with me.

The other thing?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Pardon me for interrupting, Mr. Beaulieu, but Mr. Viglione would like to answer your question.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

All right.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

In that case, the floor is yours, Mr. Viglione.

[Francesco Viglione]

Thank you very much.

I just wanted to add that there's considerable ignorance outside Canada. I'm an immigrant, and, before arriving in Canada, I thought that people spoke French only in Quebec.

Today we do a lot of prep work for arrivals because, as an association, we really want newcomers to integrate in the best conditions. We also try to prepare people on topics such as rents, taxes and so on.

Many people outside Canada really believe that French is spoken solely in Quebec. So a considerable amount of linguistic promotion work also has to be done in the recruitment forums.

I really wanted to say that. I'm a direct witness of that belief. I thought that no one in Canada spoke French outside Quebec.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In 30 seconds, that'll be tough.

On this matter, there's the territorial model, under which linguistic planning is based more on individual rights. Sooner or later you sort of return to a kind of territorial model because it can't be denied that French is more likely to be viable where there are concentrations of francophones.

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

We could?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

That's kind of you, Ms. Veronis, but we're running short of time. You may be able to answer that question during Mr. Beaulieu's next round or in responding to someone else.

Ms. Ashton, welcome. You have six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to all the witnesses.

Ms. Veronis, you said the francophone immigration system should be separated from the anglophone system. Would you please explain to us why you think that would be a good idea?

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

As I said, the immigration system is made very complicated by the complexity of society today and the fact that Canada is an attractive country for many people wishing to build new lives through new opportunities. However, there are fewer francophones in the world than people who speak other languages. A complicated immigration system isn't necessary, particularly since, as I said earlier, the needs of francophone immigrants are different from those of immigrants in general. Complex general immigration criteria are being applied to a group with a different profile and needs. So there's a kind of discrepancy between the two.

What does that kind of system look like? I admit I hadn't thought about it. You could establish a simplified class, as in express entry, but for francophones, by doing away with the points system and all that. I think the process is so complex that it can definitely be simplified in one way or another. You have to look at needs and the applicant pool, then facilitate it all so that it works.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I see. Thank you very much.

Mr. Normand, we're aware of the lack of funding in your sector.

Would you please explain to us how that lack of funding has affected your ability to assist international students in settling in Canada and addressing the labour shortage at francophone postsecondary education institutions?

[Martin Normand]

Thank you.

I referred in my remarks to a poll conducted in 2020, according to which 90% of the clientele wanted to stay in Canada. In that same study, international clients were asked about the types of services they had received from their postsecondary institutions. The vast majority of them fortunately said they wanted to stay in Canada because they felt they had been well received, welcomed and supported by their postsecondary institutions, but there are still deficiencies that must be addressed, with regard to cultural competencies, for example. We have to ensure that the range of services is well suited to certain cultural realities.

With regard to modes of communication—Ms. Veronis referred to this a little earlier—not everyone uses the Internet in the same way. Certain methods of communication may not be systematically available to the international clientele. In short, certain improvements should be made within our institutions.

Despite all their goodwill, there are problems associated with the public funding of postsecondary institutions. That's true at all institutions and all the more so at francophone institutions, which are disadvantaged as a result of funding formulas. All institutions have to make tough investment choices. As I said, despite all their goodwill, they don't always have the necessary resources to develop the range of services they would like to offer, including services to their international clientele.

Some types of services may cost more to develop or provide. I'm thinking, for example, of immigration consultants, who could help international students obtain permanent residence once they've graduated.That kind of service is very costly, and very few of our institutions currently offer it. Some can because they've received additional funding from their province to do that work. It's nevertheless a very costly service.

You can imagine others, but there will be limits on what they can offer as long as permanent additional funding is unavailable to postsecondary institutions.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I see. Thank you.

I'd like to question Ms. Veronis and Mr. Viglione on the issue of gender.

We talk a lot about welcoming families or people who come to work in fields subject to labour shortages. Sometimes, however, we attract only one member of the family, in particular, the father. There's no support for meeting the personal or professional needs of the woman. We're experiencing this kind of situation in my region.

Do you think we need to include a gender perspective in the work we're doing to welcome and support immigrants?

Is Canada currently doing what's necessary in this area, or should it do more?

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

Here's a quick answer to your question.

I think the gender issue is important, particularly because families come from different cultures. What I wanted to mention to Mr. Beaulieu a little earlier was the idea that many immigrants settle in a community together precisely in order to establish a community.

Now I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Viglione.

[Francesco Viglione]

Canada is already doing a good job.

As an association dedicated to integrating immigrants, we try to establish support groups. The people we help come from different ethnicities and cultures. Since we also work with a refugee clientele, we take in women who have been battered or raped and who are accompanied by their children. With the help of federal government support, we really try to create that inclusion.

I think we have a very good base, and we have to preserve it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you very much, Ms. Veronis, Mr. Viglione and Ms. Ashton.

We will now begin the second round of questions, and you will see that things will go a little more smoothly.

The first two speakers will have five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Dalton.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Many thanks to the witnesses for providing us with this information.

Mr. Viglione, you mentioned competencies. Newcomers can't make use of their skills by working in fields for which they haven't been trained. For example, 20,000 doctors and 30,000 nurses aren't working in their fields. You also said that French-language teachers, for example, are unable to teach in Canada.

What should the federal government do? The provinces, associations and unions, taken together, already represent a lot of bureaucracy. How can we move this issue forward? These people have come to Canada because of their skills to practise their professions and because they are francophones, but they're unable to practise their professions here.

I'll ask Mr. Viglione to answer that question first, followed by Ms. Veronis.

[Francesco Viglione]

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

I would say that, for those people, we should expedite recognition of the credentials they've earned in their countries. French-language teachers are still French-language teachers, both here and in France.

I can understand why it's a little more complicated for doctors. These days, we're taking in a lot of people who have completed studies in the health field. They were professional nurses and physicians in their countries but now find themselves working as attendants in nursing homes.

As regards the vitality of francophone hospitals, New Brunswick has taken a major step by conducting a recruitment mission. Some physicians have agreements with foreign schools to hire people who, in 18 days, can be accredited and practise as professional nurses.

Where I think we could really simplify the approach is in the professions that are regulated in New Brunswick, but that aren't regulated elsewhere in the country. I'm really focusing on certain workers, such as language teachers.

In addition, as regards international students, Canada invests in recruitment forums in Africa and Europe. Once they've completed their studies, those students aren't even allowed to start up a business.

There are 300 international students in Bathurst, New Brunswick. Every year, students earn their degrees but aren't even allowed to start up a business and are thus forced to go and work in major cities if they want to earn a living.

I think we really need to review these procedures so that it isn't as frustrating to integrate these people. As I previously said, they are frustrated, despite the fact that they're aware of the conditions they face in Canada. Those conditions must be improved.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much.

We are listening, Ms. Veronis.

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

One of the recommendations would be to recognize degrees and international experience. In recent interviews, participants told us that this is very costly and takes a lot of time. The World Education Services organization, which validates degrees, has recently introduced a process for francophones. The government should support credential recognition.

The situation of professions such as engineering and medicine is complex. For jobs and professions that aren't regulated, we should consider providing unpaid internships or supplementing practice with theoretical content. I very much believe in matching with employers and in internships. Internships often enable employers and immigrants to get to know each other and the latter to gain Canadian experience, which is a major challenge.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor for five minutes.