Official Languages Committee on Sept. 27th, 2023

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

The government can facilitate applications—as I was saying earlier concerning the way the procedure is in place—and then aim to select a certain group, or even simplify procedures or target certain categories.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Very good, thank you.

Mr. Normand, do you want to add anything?

[Martin Normand]

I have two suggestions. The government could provide separate programs for francophone immigration—that is, programs that specifically meet the needs of francophone communities—rather than general Canada-wide programs.

In addition, it should have a policy that also targets immigrants' socioeconomic success to ensure that the message received abroad clearly explains that, when you immigrate to Canada, you're welcomed, you're well integrated and you can succeed here in French.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Great, thank you.

I yield the floor to my colleague from New Brunswick.

[Francesco Viglione]

Thank you very much.

In two points, we need a targeted immigration policy to encourage francophone immigration, and settlement support for all immigration programs, not just for permanent residents.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Great.

Mr. Normand, could you tell us briefly what you would do if universities and colleges received funding to develop a strategy to better integrate francophone students? There's a Canada-wide strategy, but we're looking for a strategy for francophones.

[Martin Normand]

In the case of our institutions, closer collaboration between IRCC and our institutions would free up time for officers and our members' internationalization case managers. They could then focus their efforts on recruitment and partnerships with institutions abroad. There would be a greater capacity for work.

If additional funding was provided, as I said earlier, we could imagine setting up other services to ensure that, when a student leaves the institution, they have all the tools needed to obtain permanent residence status.

Some obstacles may remain. Fluency in English may be one, or, according to some officers, the course of study is not necessarily interesting or does not suit the needs of the market as assessed. In such cases, work permits or permanent residence are refused after graduation. So we need to have services in place at our institutions to ensure that students seeking permanent resident status have the right track record to get it.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Can't they apply for permanent residence before completing their studies?

[Martin Normand]

No.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

I now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

When the action plan on official languages was announced, the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, or ACUFC, noted that $32 million was earmarked per year for four years, whereas the Liberals had promised $80 million per year.

What are the implications of this difference? Is $32 million still enough?

[Martin Normand]

The first implication is financial because, in terms of available money, this is half of what had been promised. Our institutions had allowed themselves to dream about what could be done with such an amount. For example, we planned to improve access to programs and services, or offer incentives to attract new clients. Many things could be imagined with these funds. Clearly, with less than half the money planned, the level of ambition will be reduced.

However, this promise is not just about money. It's also about permanence, and that's the key to this dynamic. It's a four-year program—the criteria aren't all known yet—but it's expected to be small, one-off initiatives that respond to urgent requests rather than structuring initiatives that tackle the root problems that have been documented and that the post-secondary sector is going through.

These four years may seem long to many, but four years is the length of a bachelor's degree. We're not going to change the post-secondary sector in the time it takes to get a bachelor's degree. We need to be able to plan for our institutions over the long term, and give them the benefit of a permanent program that enables them to imagine structuring solutions and that is sufficiently endowed to respond to the issues we documented as part of the national dialogue on post-secondary education in a francophone minority context. There are 32 recommendations for structuring the post-secondary sector. One of them specifically concerns international students.

With this money, we'll be able to respond to most of the recommendations made.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That said, for the time being, you don't have it, and it's not permanent.

[Martin Normand]

Let's just say that the impermanence issue is going to make things difficult for institutions.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You say that francophone universities are disadvantaged by the funding methods.

Could you briefly give us an example of how these funding methods could be improved to restore equity?

[Martin Normand]

The starting point is that economies of scale are not the same in small institutions as in large ones.

Take the example of a computer system. It will cost the same whether the institution is large or small, yet the funding structure is not the same to pay the same bill in the end. That's why we need permanent measures to bridge the gap.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Normand.

Ms. Ashton now has the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

My first question is for Ms. Veronis.

Ms. Veronis, you said more services were needed in Africa, for example. We've already heard concerns on the ground about the lack of consular services, as well as the use of visa application centres, which are for profit.

Do you think the use of these centres improves our immigration system? On the contrary, does it create a system in which only those with resources can submit an immigration application? In other words, is the lack of resources a barrier, particularly for African families who want to come to Canada?

[Dr. Luisa Veronis]

The current system does seem unfair to me, given that the centres are concentrated and, as a result, in many countries, candidates sometimes have to travel for interviews, among other things. That said, a certain part of the process is now done online. So the current system puts some people at a disadvantage.

It must be recognized that the immigration system is unfair. Those who can afford the application fee manage to immigrate here, and others can't. Highly educated people are also targeted. There's the whole issue of brain drain, for example. So there are a lot of challenges. We're trying to address our shortages and meet our demographic needs through these people's immigration. I believe that having more consular services can make immigration more accessible, which on the other hand can accelerate the brain drain. As Mr. Normand or Mr. Viglione said, maybe we can recognize the richness of the francophonie more by creating links between francophones here and there.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Okay, thank you.

I want to come back to the issue of federal leadership in the context of the early childhood education labour shortage. My own family experience has made me aware of this. An entire generation is losing the opportunity to learn French. There are labour shortages in many sectors, but education goes to the very heart of our committee's daily concerns.

So let's talk about the labour shortage in education and the leadership that needs to be shown by the federal government, while absolutely recognizing that education comes under provincial jurisdiction, up to a point.

What concrete action can the federal government take to address this labour shortage in education?

Mr. Normand, would you like to add anything?

[Martin Normand]

I'll do it very quickly, to let my colleague finish.

In the white paper on the reform of the Official Languages Act—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Mr. Normand, I forgot to let you know that you had less than 30 seconds left. I ask that you wrap it up.

[Martin Normand]

I will let Ms. Veronis wrap up.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

It was the chair's mistake, not watching the timer.

So, Ms. Veronis or Mr. Normand, please wrap up.

[Martin Normand]

This white paper put forward the idea of establishing an immigration corridor for education. We have yet to see how this announced measure will unfold.

We've heard that there has also been targeted guidance for candidates. So it would seem that an IRCC officer could guide candidates who wanted to come and teach in Canada, for example, to facilitate the transition.