Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2023

[Roger Pichette]

To the extent that consular services are defined as services that we choose to offer, they can be very wide-ranging. If the underlying objective is to increase francophone immigration success rates, we should offer briefings that highlight the role of authorized representatives, the importance of not allowing indiscriminate access to immigration files, and ways to obtain clarifications about a rejected application so that the next one is better prepared. As for determining the scope of these kinds of measures, you would know better than me.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Can you tell us what deters your clients the most from immigrating to Canada?

[Roger Pichette]

Wait times are definitely a factor. The situation is different now, but before the pandemic, the wait times for a permanent residency were twice as long in Quebec as they were everywhere else in Canada. Obviously, when people asked me if they should go to Quebec or Canada, I would tell them that things would move a lot faster in one than the other.

Again, some of these people are arriving from countries that lack the same level of government services that we provide, or lack the same relationship with them. They do their best to prepare their application, which is often quite lengthy, only to receive a one-line letter in return. They learn that their application has been turned down because it's not thought to be a good one. All the rest of the letter is copy-pasted. They try to figure out what happened, but have no access to anything. I think that discourages them fairly quickly. If they have the option of going to France or somewhere else at that point, they will.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

All right, thank you.

I would like to ask you one last question about employers and recruitment.

In your opinion, could recruiters on the ground work harder, with federal government support, of course, to get people to come to Canada?

[Roger Pichette]

Yes. There is definitely a range of issues to deal with, like security, logistics and travel, but there is always room for improvement. Obviously, we have to bear in mind the cost-benefit ratio. I imagine that your fellow citizens often ask you questions about that. We cannot spend public funds on major initiatives to recruit a couple of workers. I understand that. However, while we may not necessarily be able to do more, we can always do better.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I am not sure how much time I have left. Do you have anything to add or any recommendations for the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have one minute and 20 seconds left, Ms. Ashton.

[Roger Pichette]

I think what we really need is to improve our communications with these people. They prepare their case and have it processed at a cost, with or without representation. If no one bothers to ask, why would they think to submit their documents in the original Arabic, for example? They would assume that no one would read them. If applications are denied because an original Arabic version is not on file, but the reason given for the refusal is unclear, it means that these educated francophones, able to meet workforce needs, are being denied the opportunity to submit an application that accurately reflects their profile as applicants. In a way, the rug is being pulled out from under them.

Did I go over my time?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Do you have other examples of things the government has done?

[Roger Pichette]

For example, someone's work permit application was turned down twice because of doubts over the authenticity of the job offer. I had to file two access to information requests before I found out that the labour market assessment performed by the federal department and by the Quebec department, along with an employment contract, were insufficient. The officer wanted to see a logo on the employment contract. This is what blocked the application not once, but twice. What do you think happened next? As I was about to bring an appeal in Federal Court, the applicant withdrew and the employer had to start the whole process over again.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Pichette. That is really interesting.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

I am going to use my discretion as chair to conduct the next round of questions. You will all have half as much time as usual to ask your questions.

Mr. Généreux, you have two and a half minutes to speak.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Before going further, I would like us all to reach agreement on the time matter. We started the meeting late. We planned to spend an hour with the witnesses, and I think we should stick to that plan. It is not our fault that technical problems prevented things from working properly. As parliamentarians, we should not be penalized. The minister will be joining us afterwards and he will have an hour to testify.

Are you able to adhere to the full hour scheduled with these witnesses?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I would be pleased to oblige, but then the minister's testimony would be cut short.

After 6:30 p.m., we have to move on to other things. We will have 15 minutes with the clerk and after that, all the members have other obligations.

It is the committee that—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Can we not extend the sitting, like we have in the past?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please proceed, Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I, along with several other committee members and the minister, have another meeting at 6:30 p.m. sharp. Immediately after our meeting, the minister has to appear before another committee. I wouldn't want him to be late for that committee meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Généreux, if you don't mind, I'll cut the question period in half. That way it's fair to everyone.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pichette, our leader, Pierre Poilievre, has proposed that a future Conservative government would implement a measure to recognize the skills of professionals within 60 days of them arriving from abroad. That would happen in several fields, including doctors and nurses. It means that they can be welcomed more quickly. Do you think that is a good idea?

As you know, our MPs' offices have practically become Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada offices. Three employees from my team call IRCC every day. We have to set up appointments with these people in advance in order to deal with all these cases. There are many horror stories like the one you told about the logo. It is crazy.

Some mechanisms within IRCC simply don't work. Nearly 1.5 million people, or more, are still waiting for their applications to be processed.

What do you propose?

I believe that there should be a service that deals with the small details that are missing, such as logos or commas. Otherwise, applicants have to start the whole process all over again and, for the most part, pay fees a second time. It just doesn't make sense.

I'll give you a chance to answer my questions.

[Roger Pichette]

When it comes to skills recognition, the professional orders will clearly take issue with that because they'll want to protect their turf. Perhaps there should be some pressure on them to complete their analysis within a reasonable timeframe. I don't think that 60 days is an unreasonable amount of time to determine whether an applicant is eligible to become part of a medical order, the bar or another order. It would make sense. The professional orders will say that they need money to pull it off. Discussions will obviously need to take place.

As for the other point you raised, you're right again. We're missing something. We're sort of victims of our appeal, which we underestimate. There aren't many places in the world that are as geopolitically stable as Canada and offer the same quality of life. We're always going to attract more people than we'll be able to handle, even if we increase processing capacity.

I don't have the magic solution, but I'm open to any and all suggestions. Obviously, more resources would make things interesting.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Pichette, thank you for keeping to the time limit.

Mr. Samson, you have the floor for two and a half minutes as well.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both witnesses.

Mr. Pichette, I really liked some of your recommendations. I'll certainly include them in the questions that follow.

Mr. Castonguay, I have to say that I'm quite disappointed in your vision. Perhaps you're talking about statistics from certain parts of the country. I don't know if you're aware, but since 1996, francophone regions in Canada are in charge of managing their own schools. There has been a steady increase in the number of students in francophone schools across most of Canada, including the territories. In the last 15 years, the number of students in francophone schools in Nova Scotia has almost doubled; that's impressive.

If I were to accept your proposal, it would be tantamount to saying that Nova Scotia, for example, should simply agree to become completely anglicized and no new francophone immigrants should be sent there because it's a waste of time. It's very disappointing to hear that.

I'll tell you the truth. If you look at the increasing number of students in francophone schools across Canada, you'll see that an incredible community is being built. I recognize that Quebec is making its own efforts, but to say that it's a waste of time for immigrants to move to other provinces, where there is a vibrant community, is really short-sighted when it comes to bilingualism and linguistic duality in Canada.

I'm very disappointed, but you're entitled to your opinions and I respect that. I assure you, however, that there are incredibly vibrant minority language communities across Canada.

I don't know if my two and a half minutes are up. I don't have any questions except this one: Don't you think that the strategy you're suggesting will eliminate French in provinces and regions other than Quebec, New Brunswick and maybe Northern Ontario?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please answer in five seconds or less.

[Prof. Charles Castonguay]

The house is on fire, and it's time to save the furniture.