Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2023

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We don't disagree on the target, but I want to make sure it's achievable, and I intend to hit it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Iacono, you may go ahead for six minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister, to answer a few questions.

Can you give us an overview of the consultations IRCC is conducting in order to develop a francophone immigration policy?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

As your fellow member pointed out, the Official Languages Act requires the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to adopt a francophone immigration policy. The policy will set out realistic targets, as I just said, as well as the mechanisms necessary to achieve them.

I mentioned the 4.4% target, which actually wasn't ambitious. However, the Government of Canada had never achieved it. We are well aware that a 4.4% target won't cut it, especially with the mechanisms currently in place at IRCC.

My goal is twofold: first, set a more ambitious target, and second, introduce mechanisms that will make it possible to achieve the target in the years ahead, even raise the threshold.

Certainly, we recognize that immigration is something that will help restore the community's demographic weight. It's not the only factor, and it's important to point that out. We have an action plan that requires funding. We have a budget of $13.4 million just to develop the policy.

The last thing I want to say is that none of this can happen without consultation. We've consulted the stakeholders who care deeply about the French language across the country. With the help of those stakeholders, particularly the people at the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, or FCFA, we will be able to reach the targets, which have to be both realistic and ambitious.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You said the 4.4% target was hard to achieve. What target do you think we could achieve?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I said that the target of 4.4% had never been met previously, but we hit it a year sooner than we said we would.

I can tell you that I won't be satisfied until we meet the targets. That's just my nature. It's obvious that the mechanisms in place to achieve the 4.4% target weren't as strong as we would've hoped.

That is why I'm uneasy, albeit ambitious. We need to establish processes both within and outside the country so we can bring newcomers to the country properly and ensure the language's survival. We can't just ask French-speaking people to come here and then leave them to fend for themselves. We need to put supports in place and have the funding necessary to preserve and sustain French-speaking communities.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Can you give us an idea of the measures IRCC has taken to help French-speaking newcomers integrate outside Quebec?

What is the feedback from the people on the ground? What are organizations saying about the measures?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

That question is particularly relevant in the wake of the last one.

In 2022‑23, IRCC invested nearly $72 million to strengthen the francophone integration pathway, a suite of settlement and resettlement services provided in French by francophone communities.

The 2023‑28 action plan for official languages sets out an additional investment of $50 million to bolster the reception capacity of francophone minority communities.

That makes it possible to support a number of initiatives that have never been funded. People want to see results. I can tell you that, further to our consultations, most stakeholders were glad not only that the Official Languages Act was being overhauled, but also that services and supports were being established to preserve and sustain the French language outside Quebec.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Under the action plan, $137.2 million is being invested in francophone immigration over five years, in addition to a total of $84.3 million invested under the previous action plans.

How will that funding help IRCC promote Canada and recruit francophone immigrants?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

When I talked about the importance of raising the target of 4.4% to 5%, 6%, 7% or 8%, I mentioned the mechanisms that had to be in place. That requires planning. We can't just pluck francophones from the pool of people who want to come to Canada and tell them to figure it out. That would be unacceptable. We have to set up the necessary activities to promote Canada abroad, while obviously undertaking activities in Canada to support newcomers.

That is why we carried out 540 activities in Canada and about 290 activities internationally in 2022. That involves a lot, especially putting in place the resources, in west Africa and other parts of the French-speaking world, to promote Canada and make sure that those who want to come to Quebec receive the support they need. We have a lot of applications and a lot of work to do to make sure the sorting and triaging of applications from people wanting to come to Canada is free from systemic racism. At some point, that has to be addressed.

The work starts—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister. You'll get a chance to follow up on that point.

We now go to Mr. Beaulieu for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here.

Very quickly, I'd like to give notice of the following motion, so we can discuss it at the next meeting:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), and taking into account the Radio-Canada reports last Tuesday, which revealed new violations of the Official Languages Act within the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), the committee hear from the RCMP Commissioner, Mike Duheme, no later than October 18 to discuss the RCMP’s plan to comply with the Official Languages Act and respect the French language.

Minister, earlier you spoke about the decline of French outside Quebec. The answer you gave my fellow member was evasive.

Do you think Quebec is experiencing a decline of French?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

French is clearly under threat in Quebec.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You're playing semantics. Is there a decline, or is French under threat?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

French is clearly under threat in Quebec. There is absolutely no doubt about it.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

However, you don't think there's a decline.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

In the 1970s and 1980s in Quebec, English was spoken more often in Montreal. I lived in Montreal. I think there has been a push by Quebec to strengthen the French fact, but a threat still looms because of Quebec's geographical location in North America.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You're evading the question again.

Whether we consider people with French as their mother tongue, the language they use at home, their first official language spoken or their language of work, French has declined as compared with English in Quebec. It's even worse in Montreal. By all those indicators, there's a lot more English in Montreal. Therefore, French is declining in Quebec, but you don't seem to want to admit it.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I can tell you what I see when I go door-knocking in my riding. I see people—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I don't want to get into that. It's easy to give anecdotes.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

No, it's important, because I'm talking about the survival of French.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'm talking about scientific data and statistics.

Let's move on to another topic, then.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We agree on the same principle, meaning that French must be preserved and revitalized in Quebec. There's no disagreement there.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If you don't admit that French is declining, it's tough to take the necessary actions to stop that decline.

I would say that francophone immigration is critical outside Quebec, but also in Quebec. Earlier, you seemed to say that you were ready to work together. I'm happy to hear it, because people at various IRCC offices in the world apparently didn't want to work with Quebec.

If your focus is on increasing francophone immigration outside Quebec by using IRCC offices all over the world, there's a risk of robbing Peter to pay Paul—unless there is genuine co-operation. Quebec draws from the same pools of prospective newcomers, after all. If you did work together, the federal government could help Quebec achieve its francophone immigration targets. Obviously, Quebec has some authority over immigration, but it does draw from the same pools.

Otherwise, temporary immigration is available, as are all the other immigration categories that fall solely under federal jurisdiction. Are you ready to try to increase francophone immigration in those categories in Quebec?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Yes, I absolutely am.

First, I want to say that the people who come here are not objects. We can't just move them around and say it's all the same thing. We can't take something from one to give preference to another. That's not at all the case.

Personally, I want Quebec to exercise its right to bring in people who speak French and help them. I've spoken with my Quebec counterpart, Minister Fréchette. She wants us to think about how French speakers who come to Quebec to do their studies can access permanent residence. We are certainly ready to work on that. That's a mechanism that could be introduced outside Quebec as well, without taking anything away from anyone.

In the case of international students studying in Quebec, for instance, the levels or thresholds are too low to accommodate all of them. Obviously, that's a discussion that has to be had with Quebec. If French speakers want to settle elsewhere, that is their right. Every human has the right of mobility. They can choose where they want to live. It's clear that francophone communities need to be prioritized, whether in Quebec or elsewhere.