Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2023

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

As you said, there is also an obligation in the legislation.

Let's talk about the reality of immigration. Why are the processing times so bad? In the case of the skilled worker program, in 2021-22, 100% of applicants had to wait more than 180 days for their application to be processed. How can you hope to attract francophone immigrants with such unacceptable time frames?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'll yield the floor to my deputy minister, Ms. Fox.

[Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much for the question.

Actually, after the COVID‑19 crisis, there were delays in processing applications. We have been very transparent about the initiatives the department has taken to process all files.

Since then, we have returned to our service standards in several categories. The standard, which was 60 days for students, is now 46 days. What's more, for the Global Talent Stream of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, processing times are 14 days: we're now on schedule to attract global talent here in Canada.

It's not over; we've made progress, but there's still work to be done.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Fox.

That's all the time you had, Ms. Ashton.

The next five minutes will be shared between Mr. Godin and Mr. Kmiec.

Mr. Godin, I'll let you know when you have about two and a half minutes left.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to hear you talk about the Centre d'innovation en immigration francophone, which was announced in 2022. There's confusion now: the minister says one thing, but officials came to tell us something else and replied in writing that there was no customer service.

I think there's an urgent need for action on francophone immigration. Is the Centre d'innovation en immigration francophone indispensable in the short term to get results on the ground?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

First, it's not a customer service centre. In the short term, it may not be indispensable, but in the medium and long term, it is.

I used the word “mechanism” several times during my testimony. This will be a very important centre for distributing and selecting projects, and for fostering the contribution of people who have more expertise than I do in promoting the French fact outside Quebec. What's more, this centre will perfect our systems and the way we do things in West Africa or the rest of the world.

There are already six people working there, which isn't as many as we'd hoped. There's reason to talk about enhancing their work.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Forgive me, Minister, but my time is short.

I think it's a poor investment of Canadians' money to have spent $12.9 million to create this centre and then spend $5 million a year, through the Action Plan for Official Languages, to make it effective. I sincerely believe that the public servants who are with you today are competent and that they know very well the problems and shortcomings that can be corrected in order to obtain an immediate result.

I just wanted to give you my opinion. I think we're on the wrong track and wasting time. Meanwhile, francophone immigration is declining and we're not reacting.

I now give the floor to my colleague Mr. Kmiec.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Kmiec, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have another title to read to you, Minister, from a great Radio-Canada podcast: “International students affected by the housing crisis.” We were talking about the fact that there are a lot of international students who work hard to come here to Canada, but who, after a few months or a year, find that it's not worth it to finish their studies in Canada and settle here.

I always thought that the goal of the Canadian government and all politicians was to bring people here to convince them to stay here, not just to find work and study, but to become Canadian citizens. For me, the goal of immigration is to have more people join our Canadian family and, of course, the Quebec family.

How can we maintain an immigration program that doesn't fulfil all these objectives, with people saying it's not worth staying in Canada, because it's too expensive, because it's too difficult to find housing and because it's too difficult to finish your studies in Canada because of all these problems?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I don't want to minimize the plight or the testimony of these people, but there are also hundreds of thousands of people who say it's worth staying. I would also say that not all international students come here to stay. You only have to think of the cabinet members who went to Oxford. They didn't go to study there with the intention of living in England. They came back and became ministers or held other positions.

International students are highly coveted people. Canada is always a popular destination for them. Not everyone has to or wants to stay, but in some cases, there are also avenues for people to stay.

There are certainly establishments that aren't doing their job and are just filling their coffers, but there are others that are doing their job very well.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'm sorry, Minister; I'm going to have to interrupt just so I can ask you this one last question.

Earlier this year, Neil Yeates, a former deputy minister of the department, produced a report called “IRCC Organizational Review Report”. I'm told that it's a 28-page report and that Paul Wells has obtained a copy of it.

In it are organizational recommendations for this department. Organization deeply impacts all streams of immigration. It will impact the quality and our ability to attract French-speaking students and immigrants to Canada.

Have you read the report, first of all? Have you looked at the recommendations? Can this committee have that report?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It's far from me—and I hope it doesn't affect my political position—to recommend that people read Paul Wells' Substack, but he did a great article on that with the deputy minister to my right, Christiane Fox,. She committed to implementing a great number of the recommendations in the report. I think that's worth a further discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm sorry, Mr. Kmiec. We've even exceeded five minutes.

I give the floor to Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for coming today, and on such short notice. Thank you also for the work you do.

As soon as you were appointed, in July, during your first speeches, you started talking about francophone immigration. So, I think you've grasped the issue very well and the importance of restoring the demographic weight of francophones across Canada, especially in regions like mine, in Northern Ontario.

Earlier, a witness, Mr. Pichette, presented us with five recommendations. One of them concerned the fact that problematic companies, notably because they have fraudulent intentions, are targeting their publicity to international students. What steps will you take to prevent these companies from taking advantage of Canada's appeal to exploit international students?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It's clear—and I've spoken publicly about this—that there are actors in Canada and outside the country who are taking advantage of this student demand and giving false hope to many people. It's very unfortunate to see them suffer and receive an education that doesn't live up to their expectations, especially in institutions that aren't the best players, not planning very well to support these people, whether in terms of housing services or other services. It's a problem I don't want to exaggerate, but I don't want to minimize it either. Some provinces, in the exercise of their jurisdiction, do a better job than others.

The challenge facing the federal government and me, as Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, is to figure out what I need to solve. It's not my job to police the structural funding of higher education by the provinces, and I'm sure the provinces would call me to order if I tried to do so. Institutions have adapted to accommodate international students who pay three or four times what our children pay. It's a problem and part of the discussion about the ecosystem that's been created.

My job as Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship is to look at the visa process, to look at the reliability of the institutions that benefit from that process and the international students who come here, and to stop fraud. We are working—and this will require coordination with the institutions concerned and the provinces—to determine which institutions are more sound than others, even if it means rewarding the good players later on and punishing the bad ones. It's not going to happen overnight. I know people may be frustrated by that statement, but it's a valve that can't be closed overnight without very negative repercussions.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you very much.

In the action plan, we've added $137 million for the next five years. In terms of francophone immigration, you mentioned the importance of offering more consular services in West Africa, particularly in Cameroon.

Our colleague Mr. Drouin, president of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, spoke earlier about the importance of increasing francophone immigration from Africa. Will you be taking steps, in addition to those taken in West Africa, to go after more African students with the funds from the action plan?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Actually, despite what your colleague said when he decried the Centre d'innovation en immigration francophone in Dieppe, this centre is going to help us in this aim, that is, to put in place, in the context of missions abroad, in West Africa or elsewhere, the right mechanisms to be able to make Canada shine.

Earlier, I talked about funding to address the shortage of French-speaking teachers. Your colleagues raised, among other things, the importance of having this support, different from what an English-speaking immigrant would need. We need teachers. We can talk all we want about provincial laws and this beautiful federal law, but it's in public schools that we're going to ensure the longevity of our language and the education of my children and grandchildren.

We need to talk about public school reform in French, in Quebec, even if it's outside my area of expertise. The future of our beautiful French language depends on quality education. What appeals to me most, when we talk about the longevity of our language, is education in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, Ms. Fox and Ms. Scott, the first time we asked you to come here, you came. At the committee's request, we had to reschedule your appearance, and all three of you returned at the first opportunity. The committee would therefore like to thank you for your availability.

I would like to tell committee members that, for the upcoming study on the economic development of official language minority communities, political organizations must provide their witness lists this Friday, no later than 4 p.m. Ottawa time. This applies to the NDP, Bloc Québécois, Conservative Party and Liberal Party.

The committee's analyst has provided us with a framework for developing the report she proposes we write on this study. I don't see any problem with people taking a look at the index she has prepared for us. If you have anything you'd like to suggest to her individually, you can send it to her in writing, it will be quicker.

Because of the technical problems that occurred in the first hour, we won't have time to take five minutes to continue the meeting behind closed doors, as we would exceed the allotted time. Therefore, we will deal with what we had to deal with at the next in camera meeting. If you agree with me, I give my blessing to the analyst to start writing this report based on the development framework she has proposed to us today, which I fully agree with.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a quick question, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for taking the time. I'd like to check whether the committee could receive a copy of the document entitled “IRCC Organizational Review Report”. I think it could be useful in the study we're currently conducting on francophone immigration. Would it be possible to send a copy of this report to the clerk so that we have all the information?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We'll look into it, but I think it's possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

The meeting is adjourned.