Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2023

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's it.

I didn't necessarily mean dictating where people have to go. I was talking about giving preference to the French fact and its vitality. The francophone immigration pools aren't infinite, and we should try to coordinate our efforts so as not to undermine each other. That said, you seem to be open to the idea, and I'm glad.

The FCFA talked about the need to raise the francophone immigration target to 10%. I think an overall increase is needed.

Do you think it's possible to raise the target beyond 4.4%, which clearly won't cut it to stop the demographic decline?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

What I said to the FCFA representatives is that I would like to see the target at 6%. That would be a 50% increase of a target that was hard to achieve. We need to be ambitious, and we need to put mechanisms in place to ensure the system is sustainable and, then, increase the percentage. That is the heavy responsibility I am putting on the shoulders of the officials to my left and right. Nevertheless, I think it's doable.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Ashton, you may go ahead for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Since we're on the subject of the FCFA, I want to point out that its target for francophone immigration outside Quebec is 12% over the next three years, in order to restore the demographic weight of francophone and Acadian communities to 1971 levels.

Do you support the FCFA's recommendation to raise the target to 12%?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I've met with FCFA representatives on two occasions, one of them being in person. What I told them was that I agree that the francophone immigration target needs to be increased, no matter the number. They recommended 10%, if I'm not mistaken. The target has to be achievable. I don't want to do what politicians do and set targets, only to disappoint everyone when they aren't met.

I want to put mechanisms in place within the department to make sure we are able to keep raising the target. I think going from 4.4% to 6% is tough but doable. I'm not convinced we'll be able to hit that level right now, but I am confident that the public servants next to me will put in place the mechanisms needed to address the challenge. After that, it will be easier to increase the target to 7% or 8%.

I say this before the committee: it will be tough. We will have to make a concerted effort to revisit how we attract people who speak French to Canada, whether they are from west Africa or other parts of the world.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I don't have a lot of time.

We've heard from witnesses who've attributed the failure to attract francophone immigrants directly to the lack of [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I have to interrupt, Ms. Ashton. I stopped the clock. The sound cut out for five to 10 seconds.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

All right.

We've heard from a number of witnesses who've said that the failure to attract francophone immigrants was directly tied to the lack of visa offices, especially in sub-Saharan Africa.

Are you in favour of increasing consular service and visa office capacity, especially in sub-Saharan Africa, as recommended in the Senate report on francophone immigration that came out this year?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Yes, but I want to qualify my answer.

Let me tell you that we recently increased our office capacity in west Africa, particularly Cameroon. I also want to say that the 27% rate we saw in 2021, which was unacceptable, is now up to 37%.

We still have work to do from a staffing and resource standpoint, of course, but we also have to examine the reasons that were identified, regardless of what they were, for rejecting the applications of prospective immigrants to Canada, as compared with the rest of the world.

I don't think the problem is necessarily due to a lack of resources, but there is no doubt that staffing was sometimes an issue. We can remedy the situation. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned putting in place mechanisms to bring up the levels.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Today, Radio-Canada reported that there was little happening at the immigration centre in Dieppe. When will the centre really do what it's supposed to do, and why has your government dragged its feet?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'll answer quickly, and then I'm going to pass the floor over to my deputy minister.

It's already staffed with a half-dozen people. They're working on a contribution and support program with a budget of around $25 million. An announcement will be made later this year.

It's clear that a centre of this size is working directly on what I was talking about, in other words, putting mechanisms in place that will make it possible to raise our levels. The activity level at the centre is expected to grow, but since it's still early days, I don't think we can judge the centre's performance after just a few months in operation.

I'm going to ask my deputy minister to answer the other part of your question.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'm satisfied with your answer and, since I have very little time, I would like to move on to another topic. I would just add that it is taking a long time to get the Dieppe innovation centre up and running. Since the opening of this centre was announced several years ago, our expectations for it are greater.

Let us move on to the role of the government in terms of concrete measures and the leadership we need when it comes to immigration, particularly outside Quebec.

Since your government is responsible for solving the francophone labour shortage, could you propose a specific immigration pathway to attract francophone teachers—from early childhood to high school—recognizing that Canada has a deficit of 10,000 teachers in immersion classes, francophone schools and early childhood centres? Is the federal government prepared to provide the leadership our communities need in this sector, given that education comes under provincial jurisdiction, but that it is up to the federal government to deal with the labour shortage?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Labour is the responsibility of all levels of government. Our action plan includes $16 million for the retention of francophone teachers. As far as Quebec is concerned, we are always ready to work with it to ensure that we respond appropriately to this shortage of teachers—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have to be fair to everybody. We're well over six minutes.

Mr. Kmiec, welcome, as this is the first time you are participating in a meeting of the best committee on Parliament Hill. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. I see that you appeared before this committee prior to appearing before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, of which I am a member. We were supposed to have you tomorrow, but you cancelled your visit.

Since you talked about foreign students in a francophone context, have you read this article that I have here?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I don't see what you're showing me. You can read it.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

The title of the article, loosely translated, is “French students in Quebec in housing hell”. The subtitle states that, between scarcity and the cost of goods, young people arriving in Montreal face a number of challenges in being able to find housing before they return to university.

It takes two minutes to read this article, the time it takes to post a message on social media, where I know you spend a lot of time. How can we convince francophones from other countries to come here when they read such articles in international newspapers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

First of all, if you look at the demand for housing among students, you see that it is constantly increasing. I don't know if I could answer your question in a social media message or in less than two minutes, but clearly there is a dynamic to be respected with the provinces. Moreover, Quebec claims exclusive jurisdiction over international students, which is not necessarily the case in the other provinces, where this responsibility is shared.

In post-secondary institutions, there is a lot of money at stake and a lot of promises are made. As you know, a foreign student pays three to four times what my son would now pay at McGill University. Both the federal and provincial governments have a role to play in this area. One of their responsibilities is to properly house these people.

This article talks about a reality, but the fact remains that the demand among international students is very strong.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It's more of a customer service issue, and that's why I'm asking the question. International students select from all the countries where they could choose to study. Some come to Montreal to try to find housing and prepare for the school year. However, according to this article published in Le Monde, a French student found housing in a half-basement, which she says is a proper cave, with no light coming in. She says that, fortunately, she will be gone before the winter.

The article goes on to say, concerning international students, that the 20% increase in rent prices in Montreal since the COVID‑19 pandemic, and even more so the shortage of available housing, is forcing them to engage in a real struggle before they can consider starting school.

Also in the article, a French student, Valentine Descamps, posted a message on the page of a Facebook group devoted to students looking for housing in Montreal. In her message, she says that a week of intensive searching has yielded nothing. She says that she is a very calm person with a smile and asks for help, stating that she is starting school in a couple of days.

When stories like this come out, they are often directed at your department. They are about the lack of housing, and about IRCC client service, which is one of the worst performing departments, with a backlog of 2.2 million or 2.3 million applications. How can we convince students to come to our country when there are so many problems at the federal level? How do we ensure that, when they arrive, their experience on the ground is positive?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Mr. Kmiec, with all due respect, you're mixing apples and oranges.

First of all, Quebec is a very popular destination for foreign students, be they from France or elsewhere, who want an education in French. As you know, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship is not responsible for housing in downtown Montreal.

I'm not coming up with excuses, but—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Are you not responsible for housing for foreign students when they choose a Canadian or Quebec university?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

The Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship administers the visa process—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

You don't deal with that at all; it leaves you indifferent.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

No, obviously, we have a moral responsibility—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

One moment, please.

Mr. Kmiec, the interpretation can't keep up at all if two people are speaking at the same time. If you ask a question and interrupt the minister for the three seconds he is speaking, the interpretation cannot follow. So be patient, ask the question and wait for an answer.