Official Languages Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

That's great. What about the other challenges?

[Martin Normand]

The second challenge, which follows from the first, is that we need to ensure that our institutions continue to attract local and international clientele. To do that, they must have the resources they need to establish new programs that respond to changing socioeconomic situations and sociopolitical realities. They must have the resources in place so they can create new programs, but that also has to be done in co-operation with the provinces, to the extent that they have authority to approve new educational programs.

The third challenge is to continue enhancing the vitality of francophone communities. The communities have great expectations of their post-secondary educational institutions, and that's understandable. They are significant drivers of the local economy. They can also engineer community renewal so that language and identity are transmitted, as well as ongoing specialized workforce training in many fields.

In their ambition to assist the communities, our institutions must work hand in hand with the federal institutions that are responsible for enhancing their vitality.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What role do your member institutions play in the economic development of francophone minority communities?

[Martin Normand]

I noted a number of member initiatives in my remarks.

For example, there are all the laboratories designed to support innovation in many economic sectors in partnership with local businesses and civil society organizations in particular. I'm thinking, for example, of Collège La Cité, which has an artificial intelligence lab and is establishing partnerships with local businesses. A post-secondary educational institution is a major, or even the principal, employer. That generates revenue and economic activity in the region.

Then there are rural institutions such as the Université Sainte-Anne, for example, which is fortunate to be a post-secondary educational institution located in a very small community with perhaps 1,000 students and nearly as many active staff members. This situation can support local shops and provide local businesses with the labour to occupy important positions that would otherwise be left vacant.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Normand.

What tools would you like to acquire to train the labour force?

[Martin Normand]

Our institutions would like to have additional resources in order to develop new programs to meet the needs of the market. Obviously, in some cases, new programs must be developed with professional associations. Consequently, negotiations must be conducted with those associations in the case of professions that are subject to standards. That has to be done in co-operation with the provinces.

However, accurate and current data on labour needs in the communities are necessary in order to do this correctly, and I'm not the only person who says so. All civil society organizations and economic actors in the Canadian francophonie want data that will help them determine current labour shortages and the sectors affected by them.

With that data in hand, we'll be in a better position to design the strategies that should be used to target local labour needs more accurately.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

I now give the floor to the second vice-chair of this committee, Mr. Beaulieu, of the Bloc Québécois.

You have the floor for six minutes, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you very much for being with us, Mr. Normand.

Scrolling through your website earlier, I saw that Quebec colleges and universities were excluded. However, you say you represent the Canadian francophonie.

Do you think that Quebec isn't part of Canada or the Canadian francophonie?

[Martin Normand]

Our institutions wanted to organize a nationwide discussion to examine the realities of minority life. Our institutional network has many connections with Quebec institutions. In particular, we at ACUFC have forged ties with the Université de Montréal, the Université du Québec network and the Secrétariat du Québec aux relations canadiennes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's a good thing that you maintain ties. However, why don't you add the words "outside Quebec" if that's the actual situation?

[Martin Normand]

It was our members who decided there should be an association of all minority institutions.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You can state that in all your news releases, but the fact remains that 90% of francophones live in Quebec, unless you consider Quebec as already being independent. I think you have to draw a distinction regarding Quebec when you refer to the Canadian francophonie.

[Martin Normand]

I'll make a note of your comment. We nevertheless make sure to state that our 22 institutions are located in 8 provinces outside Quebec. We take care to indicate that. However, we cultivate relations with Quebec institutions and establishments to ensure that we exchange messages and expertize.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think it's always important to note that. Otherwise it's as though you were also speaking on behalf of Quebec's colleges and universities. Having said that, I'm not opposed to the idea of reunification.

With regard to the nationwide introduction of an intake cap on study permit applications, I agree with you that this is a big problem. It could be established, but wouldn't the solution be to exclude francophones from that measure? I also think that could concern Quebec francophones. Nothing would change if the intake cap wasn't introduced in Quebec.

Shouldn't an intake cap for study permits exclude francophones?

[Martin Normand]

That's one way of wording what we're proposing. The measure that was announced last week cited the example of master's and doctoral students who are excluded from the measure; that is to say, who are not affected by the cap. ACUFC views them as priority cohorts. That's why they aren't affected by this measure.

This is why we use IRCC's vocabulary. Rather than discuss exclusion, we request that francophones who come to study outside Quebec—I won't speak on behalf of Quebec because we don't represent it—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I was speaking for myself.

[Martin Normand]

We ask that francophones who come to study outside Quebec also be considered as a priority cohort. That would have the effect of relieving the provinces of responsibility for determining whether francophone institutions will receive study permits under the established cap.

We haven't discussed this dynamic that was introduced in the measure, by which I mean the fact that the provinces will be responsible for allocating the study permits among the institutions. Our view is that, if this aspect were removed and the federal government remained responsible for issuing study permits to foreign students outside Quebec in order to comply with what was announced in the francophone immigration policy two weeks ago, a lot of issues in the system would be resolved.

Certain actors would be removed from potential negotiations because the situation with the federal government would have been resolved and study permits would be allocated to other types of institutions that would also need them.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

What you're saying is that you would like the federal government to retain responsibility for issuing the study permits and not transfer that responsibility to the provinces outside Quebec.

[Martin Normand]

I actually mean that the study permits issued to students who will be studying in French outside Quebec wouldn't be affected by the cap that will be assigned to each of the provinces.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I see. Perhaps we should see if you can join forces with Quebec.

The colleges and universities definitely play a crucial role in training economic actors, and they are economic actors too.

I'd like to know how all the universities designed by and for francophones are doing, institutions such as the Université de l'Ontario français, in Ontario, and the francophone universities in western Canada, the Université de Sudbury, for example.

Could you give us a snapshot of the situation? Are they all in trouble? Are they doing well?

[Martin Normand]

We aren't experts on the financial situation of each of our institutions. The people responsible for each of them will be able to answer you. The fact remains that there are challenges, and they are known to the public. Some concern the need for institutions to be able to rely on public funding so they can carry out their mission.

However, as I said earlier, our institutions are very innovative and resilient. They find solutions to problems so they can remain attractive despite the existing barriers in the system.

In addition to the international clientele, the local clientele is also very strong, and we need to ensure that the institutions are able to meet its needs first of all. That clientele must feel drawn to its institution and want to study there.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Have you established a network capable of assisting francophone minority communities in their economic development?

Do the colleges and universities have those programs? Is there an interaction with those communities in order to promote economic development as far as possible?

[Martin Normand]

Many of our members establish connections with the various local economic development organizations, just as they do with the economic development agencies within the federal departments.

There's a communication channel, and there have been discussions. All actors understand that the post-secondary educational institutions are part of their community's economic picture. Consequently, they take part in those economic development discussions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Normand.

The next questions will be from the NDP.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.