Evidence of meeting #84 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was impact.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
We would like IRCC to consider francophones who wish to study outside Quebec as a priority cohort, as is the case of students at the master's and doctoral levels.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you very much, Mr. Normand.
There is enough time left for two four-minute questions.
Go ahead, Mr. Coden.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Normand, my colleague Mr. Drouin discussed the exponential increase in the number of immigrants who have come to study in Canada. It has skyrocketed. What impact is that having on francophone immigration? You said there had been an increase, but not as sharp. Can we say it's been a normal increase?
I don't mean to say the other increase isn't normal, but can you explain this to me and give me some numbers or an approximate idea?
10:05 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
The most recent figures we have date back to before the pandemic. We don't have accurate figures on the current situation, but we could get them.
Ultimately this means that the more reasonable rate of increase in the number of international students at our institutions is a function of our strict management of the total number of students. Many of our institutions are located in rural or remote areas. They couldn't double, triple or quadruple the number of international students on their campuses overnight because there's no room. There is no established housing or services to accommodate them. This growth has occurred at a rate more consistent with the regular growth of the communities and institutions.
However, we've made great strides. Some 15 years ago, certain institutions had no international students at all, and they've had to establish appropriate structures. Yes, our institutions need to generate own-source revenues; we can't deny that, but they also have to contribute to the communities' economic and demographic development by making their own efforts to welcome students.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You're leading me precisely where I wanted to go.
How many more foreign students can the institutions you represent take in? Can they take in 10%, 15% or 200% more? You have to take into account housing, social services and health care, among other things.
February 1st, 2024 / 10:05 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Based on the numbers from the past two years, many of our institutions feel they have reached the limit of this unbridled growth; there could be slow growth. To contribute to francophone immigration you can't just focus on the number of students who enter the country; you also have to consider the number of students who remain.
We're discussing this with IRCC; you can't throw the baby out with the bath water. We're working together to come up with measures enabling us to ensure we have a better rate of transition to permanent residency for foreign students who remain in Canada. Much work remains to be done on this aspect in our institutional network.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Mr. Normand, what impact are all the measures and upheaval caused by IRCC having on economic development in your regions?
We've discussed the institutions, but now I want to talk about what's going on locally for the official language minority communities.
What impact is the policy having on the economic development of these regions? It seems to me these communities are really suffering right now.
10:05 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
It's a simple answer. The result seems to be a possible labour shortage in the communities.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
It can definitely have an impact on local businesses. People have told us that, without the contribution of foreign students at some of our institutions in rural or remote communities, they would be forced to shut down as a result of a labour shortage. So the risks aren't limited to the institutions alone. A sharp decline in the number of foreign students could slow down the economic growth of francophone communities.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Normand.
I have another question for you, but I believe my time is up.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you, Mr. Godin.
Mr. Serré, you have the floor for four minutes.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Normand and Ms. Brouillette, thank you for the work you're doing at the national level. I enjoyed your comments.
Earlier you mentioned that francophone post-secondary educational institutions in Canada have done good things in recent years. The percentage of international students is very large because we have systematically focused on labour.
That percentage is different for the anglophone post-secondary educational institutions. In Ontario, 44% of funding for post-secondary educational institutions comes from the government. That's one of the lowest percentages in Canada. The provincial government has frozen funding and has not accepted its share of responsibility.
Earlier Mr. Drouin said that we've taken in an additional 360,000 foreign students in the past two or three years. There are now 900,000 of them. The anglophone post-secondary educational institutions are what are called "puppy mills". There has been fraud. We've heard appalling stories about students who have come to study at private institutions in Ontario but have not earned a diploma, or have received an invalid one if they did. The province has done nothing about it.
Mr. Miller has been clear about that subject since he has been minister.
According to your members, what has been the impact of the underfunding of post-secondary educational institutions in Ontario? I know you're not making any claims on behalf of the provinces seeking to attract more foreign students, but I'd like to hear your observations on the subject.
10:10 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
As you said, public funding for post-secondary education has declined. There has been a constant decrease across the country in the past 10 or 15 years. Ontario is the province that provides the least funding for its post-secondary educational institutions, but there has been a decline across the country, and that has forced institutions to diversify their revenue sources.
In the case of our francophone institutions, there are no bad actors such as those mentioned earlier. There are none in our institutional network. However, our institutions nevertheless recruit actively, transparently, ethically and credibly in francophone pools. They often join forces with civil society organizations that also conduct promotional activities abroad to inform potential students of the reality that awaits them should they decide to come and study in a minority francophone community in Canada.
Considerable assistance and support are provided to ensure that francophone students arriving in a francophone minority community are properly welcomed or received and are aware of what awaits them. These efforts are based on transparent and ethical discussions with the clientele. In certain cases, we obviously contribute to funding for the universities, but we also contribute to the vitality and economic development of the communities that host those institutions and students.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
The federal government has no idea who the bad actors are because the provinces are responsible for regulating post-secondary educational institutions.
Earlier you noted that the federal government had added $4.1 billion to its action plan, doubling action plan funding since 2015. That's something that no other party has committed to doing.
Can you briefly tell us about the additional funding that the federal government has granted for infrastructure and post-secondary education?
Our government still has to make good on its commitment regarding the $80 million. What has the government done so far?
10:10 a.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
Negotiations are under way with the provinces. So we're awaiting the outcome of those negotiations. We hope all that will be resolved promptly so there's no discrepancy in the funding years and the funding provided under the action plan is actually released to the institutions.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you very much.
That brings this meeting to an end.
Mr. Normand, thank you for taking part in this exercise. Thanks as well to Ms. Brouillette, who was with you.
Just in closing, I want to inform committee members that we will have at least one witness in the first hour on Monday. For the second hour, my letter of invitation is already on its way to the Commissioner of Official Languages. Please note that this is at short notice so we will see what happens. Depending on whether the Commissioner is available or not as a result of this very short notice, in the second hour, we will have either a discussion on committee business or a meeting with the Commissioner.
Thank you, everyone.
The meeting is adjourned.