Official Languages Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 85 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 20, 2023, as everyone recalls, the committee is resuming its study on the economic development of official language minority communities.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

On a point of order, the interpretation....

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Kitchen.

Please wait a moment.

There was a little technical problem with interpretation, but it seems to be resolved now.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you very much. Pardon me.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

If I speak in English, does it work in French as well?

It’s working.

We will continue the meeting.

There are a lot of instructions, but I think that in 2024, everyone is very familiar with the Zoom application.

I can tell members of the committee participating in the meeting virtually or in the room, as well as our guests joining us, that all sound checks were done and they were successful. Everything is therefore working well.

I ask our guests to keep the following instructions in mind:

When you take the floor, please address the Chair. If you are using the earpiece near your microphone, make sure to avoid putting them next to each other, because it can cause interference likely to injure the interpreters.

In accordance with our routine motion regarding connection tests, I wish to inform the committee that, once again, all witnesses and members of the committee performed the required connection tests before the meeting if they are participating via videoconference.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses.

From the Réseau pour le développement de l’alphabétisme et des compétences, we welcome by videoconference Ms. Mona Audet, President, and Mr. Denis Desgagné, Executive Director.

We are happy to welcome you, Ms. Audet and Mr. Desgagné.

I must tell you I’m quite strict about speaking time limits to give a chance to several committee members to ask questions and interact with you.

Ms. Audet, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Mona Audet, President, Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for having us as part of your study on the economic conditions of official language minority communities.

I’m speaking to you on behalf of the Réseau pour le développement de l’alphabétisme et des compétences, or RESDAC, a network for literacy, basic education, family literacy, employability and skills development in all Canadian francophone minority communities. We are especially known for the role we play in developing skills in informal settings, but it is clear, especially in today’s world, that by doing so we are making a contribution to setting up conditions for economic development.

Clearly, economic development is one of the developmental cornerstones for francophone and Acadian communities. It would be hard to imagine our growth and our contribution to Canada’s prosperity without skilled human resources, jobs, businesses and structures to support economic development.

For about two decades, the knowledge economy has been transforming the work ecosystem. Large international organizations, such as the World Economic Forum and the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD, are predicting large scale disruptions that will require the majority of employees to reskill and upskill. Employers throughout the country have already recognized this and are asking for general, socioemotional, managerial, transversal, professional and basic skills development. Canada set off in this direction through the Skills for Success program, which emphasizes the skills required to participate in, adapt to, and be fulfilled by learning, work and life.

Very recently, in its amended form, the Official Languages Act recognized the right to minority language lifelong learning in formal, non-formal and informal contexts.

Allow me to clarify the differences between these three learning contexts. The formal context is a diploma course offered by educational institutions. The non-formal context is structured learning that does not lead to a diploma offered by organizations and businesses. The informal context is one where individuals use a variety of resources and activities to learn independently.

At RESDAC, we take these issues seriously. We considered and published many studies on the subject. We also mobilized the Table nationale sur l’éducation to redefine the continuum of lifelong learning and outline four personal development skills to meet the specific needs and challenges of francophone communities. They include language skills, as well as skills pertaining to identity affirmation, citizen engagement and coexistence. These skills reflect the needs of our communities and were developed by and for our communities.

As you already know, the “by and for” principle is an important one, because in the Canadian system that values bilingualism, we are increasingly subjected to policies, programs and resources designed for the anglophone majority, sometimes even for the francophone majority in Quebec, and they are not always adapted to us.

To confirm the validity of our proposals and our communities’ support for this skills development venture, we organized the Sommet national sur l’apprentissage pour la francophonie canadienne, to be held on March 4, 5 and 6, 2024. Intersectional participation in the summit will create synergy between the formal, non-formal and informal learning sectors, which will then be deployed in a national action plan.

We already anticipated the follow-up to the summit by developing several strategies. To start, the RESDAC dashboard, Topo, will finally offer evidence and a composite index on our communities’ needs and assets. A French-language digital micro-certification platform will lead to skills recognition. There will be a Skills Development Centre of Expertise. There will be a competency framework and a capacity development framework for about 800 community organizations that support the social, economic and cultural vitality of our communities.

We are also working on a new approach, namely literacy efforts based on civic-minded and engaged families, as well as continuing education through the Plateforme canadienne de formation à distance.

In closing, we call on you to recognize the importance of French-language minority skills development as a condition for their communities’ economic development. As a result, we recommend that you strongly encourage the government of Canada to take positive measures in support of our community development strategies in formal, non-formal and informal contexts for growth and success. These measures must be asymmetrical, meaning they target the specific context, needs and assets of francophones. To quote the well-known expression in English, I would say we don’t want “one size fits all”.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That was five minutes on the nose, Ms. Audet. Bravo!

We will start the first round of questions. Each political party will have six minutes to ask questions of the witnesses.

First of all, I’d like to welcome Mr. Kitchen.

It's your first time here at this committee, I think.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It's my second time.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

It's your second time.

I’d also like to welcome Ms. Diab, who is replacing Mr. Samson. As you know, it’s total chaos at the Atlantic airports in Moncton and Halifax.

We will now start the first round of questions.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for exactly 6 minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don’t know why it has to be exactly 6 minutes. I think my colleague Marc Serré will feel called out!

Ms. Audet, thank you for taking part in this exercise, even if you are doing so by videoconference, unfortunately. I would have preferred to see you in person, but I am still very happy to hear from you.

In your presentation, you talked about asymmetry. In the Official Languages Act, the modern version of which passed last June, we recognized asymmetry between francophone and anglophone minorities in terms of positive measures taken by the federal government.

In this context, what do you think asymmetrical positive measures look like?

[Mona Audet]

By asymmetry, I mean tools developed by francophones and for francophones. It’s easier for francophones to find tools in English than in French. However, tools in English often don’t represent our communities. Whether it be in Winnipeg or Vancouver, culture is important, and so are communities; that’s what it means to us. It’s about measures designed by francophones, for francophones and, above all, with francophones.

Mr. Desgagné, if you want to add something, I invite you to do so.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Indeed, Mr. Desgagné, if you want to take the floor, let us know. We would be happy to hear from you.

Ms. Audet, along the same lines, are you telling me this is a major problem for you every day in terms of the work you do to develop skills and literacy?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please wait a moment before answering, Ms. Audet. I stopped the timer, Mr. Godin.

The interpreters are asking you to turn off your microphone when you are not speaking. It creates interference, which affects their work.

Mr. Godin, I am restarting the timer. You have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I already asked my question, so I will wait for Ms. Audet’s answer. If she wants me to provide more information, I would be happy to do so.

[Mona Audet]

You’re right, Mr. Godin. I will give you a real example.

I shouldn’t answer in the first-person plural, but I will anyway. In Manitoba, all our literacy programs are based on Louis Riel, on the Festival du voyageur, on the francophone community, on rural communities, and so on. That is what we mean by asymmetry. It means going to find what exists in our communities to teach it to our learners.

I also know that my colleagues all over the country do the same thing, because people need encouragement to learn more about their host community or the community in which they have been involved for a long time. Francophones also need to design and review the documents.

I give the floor to Mr. Desgagné.

[Denis Desgagné, Executive Director, Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences]

I do indeed want to add a comment. On a national level, organizations for the majority are often used to meet the needs of the minority. These large recognized organizations therefore do things in English and translate them for minorities, which is completely inappropriate.

There was even a case where people from Quebec’s French-speaking majority were tasked with a mandate extending beyond our five years of operation to meet a very specific need, and we had to help them because they did not understand the situation of minority communities.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Desgagné.

I do not want us to dwell endlessly on the subject of asymmetry, because I want your opinion on the economic situation of official language minority communities, or OLMCs, especially in your region.

However, what is happening with symmetry between official language minority communities? Could those communities use the same tools and documents?

[Mona Audet]

No, they absolutely could not.

As I said earlier, it’s important to respect the provinces and territories and take into account where people live. If we get a document from Vancouver or somewhere else, for example, it must be adapted to our communities. We therefore have to work together to develop those tools.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Ms. Audet, speaking of development, I note that we are conducting a study on the economic development of official language minority communities. It is important.

What is the situation on your end right now? Do you need specific tools to ensure even more success and appeal for the community you represent?

[Mona Audet]

I am not sure I understood your question, but I will try to answer it. If needed, Mr. Desgagné can add some points.

RESDAC is a Canada-wide network. In fact, it is the one network that allows all colleagues to work together and focus on development and creation, for instance.

Currently, we do not know what will happen with RESDAC. If we lose RESDAC, we will lose not only the collaboration between our members, but the creative component as well. Indeed, we can often take a program developed for francophones elsewhere and adapt it to our needs.

I hope I answered your question.

Mr. Desgagné, you can add to this, if you like.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Actually, Ms. Audet, I wanted to understand the current situation on an economic level. What I understand from your answer is that you are worried about the possibility that RESDAC will not survive the current situation.

Did I get that right?

[Mona Audet]

Yes, that’s it, absolutely.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Why would your network get wiped off the map?

[Mona Audet]

We have been negotiating with the people from the Skills for Success program for two years, and things are not moving quickly. There is work to be done. We are just waiting for a decision from them.

I don’t like to talk about finances, because it’s not the case. However, I must say that RESDAC has done a great deal of work over the last two years. We have the tools and the research; there are so many things we can provide to our partners and the economic field.

The situation is worrisome. We will see what happens. I will not give up, I can assure you.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Audet.

I had more questions to ask, but the chair is giving me the sign that my time is up.