Official Languages Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Indeed, the chair will bring out his whip.

Thank you, Ms. Audet and Mr. Godin.

I'd like to inform you that we're experiencing technical difficulties on Ms. Ashton's side. I don't know if she can hear us. If Ms. Ashton can't speak right away, she can have her turn later. So there's no need to worry about Ms. Ashton.

The second six-minute speaking turn goes to the Liberals.

Mr. Drouin, the floor is yours.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses who have joined us by videoconference.

Earlier, you talked about the challenges of requalification and its impact on our communities. I'm trying to understand where you situate that. Regarding requalification, what's the difference between where we were 30 years ago and where we're headed in the future? What needs may be created that will impact the network and your members, though not you directly?

[Mona Audet]

I could give you a very simple example. You know that many immigrants come to settle in Canada, correct? Often, they've had a very good education and have very good qualifications, but their prior learning isn't recognized, so they can't work. Also, some don't speak English.

That's why, regarding requalification, RESDAC has created a digital page that will enable these immigrants to quantify and qualify the training they can take. They will then have a certain level of skills and knowledge.

Indeed, we need to revisit all this, because the world is increasingly skills-driven, and so are businesses.

I hope I've answered the question correctly. If not, Mr. Desgagné can do it.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's fine, thank you.

If I understood correctly, you mentioned digital credentials. Is that right?

[Mona Audet]

Yes.

Mr. Desgagné will explain it to you.

[Denis Desgagné]

Over the past two years, we've set up a microcertification platform. These are certifications that are awarded for skills acquired in informal training, whether structured or in a self-learning context. It's a system that exists internationally. In fact, Canada has just announced a $75 million investment in a similar platform for the recognition of skills in the health care field. In collaboration with several partners, both formal and informal educational institutions, we have set up this platform, which will in fact be unveiled during the summit.

In addition, we are in the process of putting in place the whole process of skills recognition. We have a matrix comprising several skills frameworks at international, national and provincial levels. This allows us to recognize skills. What's more, the wonderful thing is that our partners in post-secondary education, at college and university levels, can certify this.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Could you clarify for the committee what you mean by “skills”?

[Denis Desgagné]

In Canada, we have a framework. Under Employment and Social Development Canada, the Skills for Success program has defined, in conjunction with the employment community, nine skills that are sought by employers and entrepreneurs in employees. This is a recognized framework, used by many international organizations. We have adapted it to the reality of official language minority communities. In fact, this is the first time this skills framework, which even has the support of UNESCO, has been adapted for a minority.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I see.

You say you work in partnership with post-secondary institutions. In other words, you're adding value to skills development assistance.

It's not necessarily the recognition of technical training, which is often a challenge in the provinces. For example, you mentioned the health care field earlier, but this also concerns other professions.

Is that right?

[Denis Desgagné]

RESDAC works with the entire education community, including post-secondary institutions. In fact, colleges and universities are increasingly working on the concept of skills. It's becoming easier and easier to recognize these skills and issue a microcertification based on them. We recognize these skills in a CV.

As the president of RESDAC was saying earlier, these can be the skills of francophones, francophiles, but also newcomers. I wouldn't want us to confuse the recognition of prior learning with the recognition of skills.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's exactly what I was getting at.

I have time for one last question.

The network has pointed out gaps in economic development.

I know your network very well. I see that you contribute to economic development, but what challenges or barriers do you see for the next few years, or 10, 15 or 20 years from now?

If you had to make one recommendation to the government, what would it be?

[Denis Desgagné]

Many points were raised in the brief submitted by Ms. Audet.

Today, we have a dashboard that lets us know where supply and demand are in terms of training and skills. Today, we can better respond to needs in terms of employability. We are also experiencing a fourth industrial revolution. We need to address these issues.

As the chair said a few minutes ago, we've done several studies to better adapt to the reality and challenges of the 21st century and really tackle these issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desgagné. If necessary, you can complete your answer later, during the next turns.

The next questions will come from the Bloc Québécois, from the second vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, with regard to Quebec, do you collaborate much with the province, or do you tend to work on your own?

What is your working relationship with Quebec?

[Mona Audet]

I'll be happy to answer the question.

We work very closely with the Institut de coopération pour l'éducation des adultes, or ICÉA. I'm sure you're familiar with this organization, Mr. Beaulieu.

We also work with the Centre de documentation sur l'éducation des adultes et la condition féminine, or CDÉACF, which is located in Montreal.

We work a lot with partners, in particular with Mr. Daniel Baril, who is the executive director of ICÉA. He's one of the researchers with whom we work very closely. We're very proud to work with partners from Quebec.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

You said there was a difference between literacy and skills acquisition for francophones in minority settings as far as Quebec is concerned. Could you tell me a little more about that?

[Mona Audet]

I'll let Mr. Desgagné field the question.

[Denis Desgagné]

This is a special situation. The Canadian francophonie is a minority, and we recognize that.

In andragogy, we train adults, and it's the context that determines the needs. The work context in Montreal is very different from that in Fort McMurray or Caraquet. That's the approach we take when we try to find solutions in terms of jobs or when we develop a training program to meet local needs.

As a matter of fact, we work with organizations along these lines, such as the Factry, which does remarkable skills development work in Montreal. However, if this organization were to move to St. Boniface to meet the needs of this region, it would have to work with other organizations, such as Pluri-elles, who are working on the ground to better meet the needs of the St. Boniface community.

So, the work is done in partnership. We work with players on a local scale, as they are better able to respond to needs, according to the context.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think the literacy needs in Quebec are considerable. Do you have an opinion on this?

Do you consider the situation to be very different from that of francophones outside Quebec? That's certainly the case where francophones are very much in the minority. In Quebec, it may seem surprising, but there are still pretty obvious literacy needs among francophones.

[Denis Desgagné]

A study by the Literacy Foundation which was published last week in Quebec, reports on the extent of this problem. Yes, as you say, there is a problem in French-speaking Canada. It's a question of cultural literacy. Cultural institutions are not the same from one city to another, from one public library to another, if I may say so.

So, the context is totally different, and the difficulties are growing. When majority organizations meet the needs of the minority, assimilation occurs as a matter of course. People have to work for employers without any language security. You know the consequences that follow.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Yes, I know them. Some of my Franco-Ontarian friends had to relearn French, because they were completely anglicized.

[Denis Desgagné]

Yes, that's a good example.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

This is also happening in Quebec.

Earlier, we talked about the fear that your organization might disappear. In the revised Official Languages Act, the federal government is supposed to be committed to strengthening opportunities for francophone minorities to pursue quality learning in formal, non-formal or informal settings, according to what you said.

In terms of funding, as I understand it, nothing is happening. You're having trouble getting adequate funding.

Is that right?

[Denis Desgagné]

It must be said that, not so long ago, RESDAC experienced a situation where it found itself dormant for five years. We had to file a complaint with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages of Canada to obtain funding. This enabled us to launch initiatives, such as the digital microcertification platform.

However, we're coming up to March and the agreement has not yet been renewed. We're losing momentum. We're currently trying to mobilize the Table nationale sur l'éducation and the Canadian Commission for UNESCO to create a new synergy, but we'll be forced to cut staff. We are currently without an agreement.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's very important to point this out, because literacy and skills development are crucial to preserving a language and passing it on to newcomers. It's unfortunate that you're having trouble getting funding. Perhaps we could mention this in our report.

As I understand it, you also don't receive any money from programs that aim to foster economic development—