Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Roy and Mr. Surette, if I happened to cut you off when you were saying something important, please send us any additional information that you think would be useful in completing the answers to the questions that you were asked. I have the unfortunate task of having to cut people off, so that the committee members all get the same amount of time. That is very important to them.

Please send any additional information to our clerk, who will pass it on to all members of the committee.

Thank you again for being here. It was really great.

On that note, we will now suspend momentarily to bring in our next witnesses.

Have a good day.

We're suspending the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We're resuming our study and starting our second hour with new witnesses.

Joining us by videoconference is Taylor Good, co-president, Association des universitaires de la faculté Saint-Jean, and Gino LeBlanc, director, Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs, Simon Fraser University.

I will keep the guidelines regarding the use of Zoom brief. Since the pandemic, everyone knows how it works.

All I will say is please turn off your microphone when you're not speaking.

There will be a first round of questions with six minutes per party.

I would ask the witnesses to keep their opening remarks to a maximum of five minutes each. I have to be strict when it comes to time because we want to be able to have two rounds of questions.

We'll start with you, Mr. Good. You have five minutes.

[Taylor Good, Co-President, Association des universitaires de la faculté Saint-Jean]

Hello everyone.

First of all, I would like to thank you for inviting me to appear before the Standing Committee on Official Languages this evening.

My name is Taylor Good. I'm a student in my final year of a bachelor of education degree at the University of Alberta's Saint-Jean campus. I am also the co-president of the association of university students at the Saint-Jean campus, also known as AUFSJ.

The purpose of the AUFSJ is to support students in their post-secondary learning by providing them with services in French, advocating for their interests, organizing social and cultural activities, supporting academic life, and promoting French and bilingual culture. The AUFSJ is also responsible for helping students get familiar with the campus, helping them better integrate into university life and advocating on their behalf with various community stakeholders.

I am proud to say that I have been part of the AUFSJ for three years. During that time, the Saint-Jean campus has undergone significant changes.

Let me share with you two situations that the students in my graduating class have experienced.

First, since I became a member of the AUFSJ, our campus has survived a pandemic that had a profound impact on post-secondary institutions, including serious underfunding at all levels of government. As a result, the Saint-Jean campus was forced to cut key elements of its programming, including many of the courses it offered as part of its programs. The Saint-Jean campus used to have six programs, three of which were offered entirely in French. Today, only one of those programs is available entirely in French, the one that I am part of, the education program. The pandemic also forced the Saint-Jean campus to make cuts to infrastructure investments, which has negatively impacted the upgrading of buildings and technology.

That being said, I am pleased to share a second situation with you today, and that is that the Saint-Jean campus has been able to overcome those challenges. Over the past two years, two major investments were announced. First, in June 2022, a $13.3-million agreement was reached between the federal government, the Government of Alberta, and the University of Alberta to increase faculty, increase the number of programs and courses offered in French, and improve infrastructure. This funding will also strengthen the visibility of the Saint-Jean campus through cultural activities and multidisciplinary activities at the national level.

I am happy to say that, since that time, we have seen many improvements in all of those areas. Major technological improvements have been made in all of our classrooms. In terms of programming, the Saint-Jean campus announced that, as of September 2024, it would be accepting applications for a new transdisciplinary doctoral program. This is an important step in Alberta's French-language education continuum, because it will enable students in Alberta to pursue their entire education in French, from kindergarten to doctoral studies.

In terms of visibility, the investment also enabled about sixty students from all of our programs to participate in the Political Science Games, which took place at McGill University and the University of Sherbrooke. There, the Saint-Jean campus ranked fourth among nine francophone institutions from across the country. If there is one thing to remember here this evening, it is the one thing that these situations have in common, and that is the importance of federal funding.

The first situation shows the impact that a lack of funding has had and could have on the Saint-Jean campus. Major cuts were made to the campus's investments and most of its programs. The campus took part in a national awareness campaign called “Save Saint-Jean”, because students and members of the community were worried that the Saint-Jean campus would not be able to offer the high-quality programming that it once did.

The second situation shows the impact that federal funding can have. A total of 75% of the $13.3 million in investments that I mentioned earlier came from the federal government. These investments made it possible to make a whole host of improvements, the benefits of which are finally being felt today. Francophone communities can now count on having the teachers, nurses, first responders and entrepreneurs they need to maintain a thriving community. We are talking about a francophone community that is constantly evolving thanks to the increased number of francophone newcomers from around the world who are settling here in Edmonton with their young families in search of a French education. We are also talking about a francophone post-secondary faculty that is part of an institution that is looking to welcome 60,000 students over the next decade.

I wonder what role the Saint-Jean campus plays in these two different landscapes. Some may say that post-secondary education is a provincial matter, but I would argue that the preservation of the French language is a federal priority.

When the federal—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Good.

You'll be able to talk about that more during the question and answer period.

I now yield to Gino LeBlanc for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. LeBlanc, we're listening.

[Gino LeBlanc, Director, Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs, Simon Fraser University]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, and Vice-Chairs Godin and Beaulieu.

I don't know if he is here today, but I'd also like to say hello to your colleague from British Columbia, Mr. Dalton, who's also a member of the committee. I met him recently.

My name is Gino LeBlanc. I'm an associate professor with the Faculty of Education at Simon Fraser University here in Vancouver.

I'm attending today's meeting as director of the Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs, or OFFA, at Simon Fraser University.

Twenty years ago, the first action plan for official languages established a partnership with the province of British Columbia to create the French-language minority education research hub that we have today at Simon Fraser University.

The role of our office is to assist the faculties, particularly in the arts and social sciences, education and health sciences, in implementing and supporting programs in French.

You could think of us a bit like the hub of the French-language education continuum. “Continuum” is an important word. It has been used a lot during your meetings. We are the hub of the French-language education continuum.

In 20 years, we've trained about 5,000 graduates. We support 275 to 300 students who study in French at the bachelor's, master's or doctoral level every year. Our role is to support not only the faculties, but also the students. I think the previous witnesses talked about that very important role. We are also active in community development. We issue diplomas and deliver training. We are also a driving force in promoting the vitality of French, a goal that's important to the Parliament of Canada and to Simon Fraser University.

In my short, five-minute speech, I would like to talk about the new Official Languages Act, which mentions post-secondary education. In particular, the new section 41, gives us new program funding capacity. That support is significant.

I also want to point out that the action plan for official languages 2023–2028: protection-promotion-collaboration will support us. The lion's share of our funding comes from the Official Languages in Education Program, or OLEP. I heard Mr. Samson allude to it earlier. It's a really important item.

A little ironically, we don't really have a seat at the federal-provincial table. Among your report's suggested improvements and recommendations, it would be helpful to include a place at this table for post-secondary institutions, in one way or another. We have a fairly good relationship with the Ministry of Post-Secondary Education and Future Skills, but we are always sidelined during these debates. We are not at the negotiating table, and it would be an advantage, or added value, for the post-secondary funding process in francophone communities across Canada if we were.

Funding is not the only factor involved in meeting the challenges inherent in offering all programs in French outside Quebec. However, I nevertheless want to talk about the importance of stable, predictable, multi-year funding. As I recently said to some of my colleagues, university programs last at least four, maybe five years. Doctorates can take longer. We want to hire professors, support students, and create a student experience and a francophone space. However, our funding cycles are rarely longer than 24 months. The last funding cycles for the official languages in education program were 24 months. Sometimes, universities are forced to make a leap of faith and hope things will carry on.

The word “continuum” is used a lot, but more work needs to be done on implementing new public policies consistent with the continuum concept, in other words, from preschool to the primary and on to the post-secondary levels. When you make your recommendations, I invite you to consider what the word “continuum” means. Is it limited to kindergarten or preschool programs, or from the primary to the post-secondary levels?

Earlier, you alluded to the Table nationale sur l'éducation. The final report of the États généraux de l'éducation postsecondaire en contexte francophone minoritaire is a key document that deserves your consideration.

The Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs, or OFFA, of Simon Fraser University in British Columbia is the university member of the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, or ACUFC. We fully endorse the recommendations arising from the États généraux. Our outlook is national.

Of course, the jurisdiction is shared. We know that complicates things. However, I am truly optimistic. I feel confident that we can establish a stable, multi-year, adequate funding structure.

Mr. Arseneault, are my five minutes up?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 25 seconds left.

[Gino LeBlanc]

Okay.

We have five priorities under the action plan for official languages 2024–2028.

First, we want to add more courses to offer a more comprehensive range of programs in French.

Second, we want to offer an enriching learning environment in French, because we have a very small minority-language community in British Columbia.

Third, we want to form closer ties with francophone communities. In fact, we are members of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique.

Fourth, we want to train a bilingual workforce for British Columbia and Canada.

Fifth, and last, we want to foster employment for our graduates in relevant jobs and in a job market where they use their French and English skills.

However, I would have —

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much.

Like Mr. Good, you'll have a chance to speak more on that later. Congratulations, by the way, on the quality of your French. Hats off!

We'll now begin the first round of questions. Each political party will have six minutes to ask questions and listen to the answers.

We'll start with the Conservative Party, represented by Mrs. Stephanie Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Good, I'm from Alberta, from Calgary to be precise. I wanted to let you know that a former Conservative member of the committee, Laila Goodridge, obtained her bachelor's degree from the Faculté Saint-Jean at the University of Alberta. At the time, her father asked her what she was going to do with a bachelor's degree from the Faculté Saint-Jean, and now she's an MP. If you ask me, it has served her well.

When I have meetings with the Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta, or ACFA, the most important topic of conversation for me is the Faculté Saint-Jean. So far, I've had at least two meetings with the ACFA about the Faculté Saint-Jean.

Here's my question: What funding mechanism does the university use to maintain and fund its student programs?

[Taylor Good]

That's a good question.

In fact, the Faculté Saint-Jean is part of the University of Alberta. The mechanisms that it uses to fund its programs and develop its budget are provided by the University of Alberta. It's predetermined.

I remember many discussions that I've had in the past about the mechanisms used. One of the topics we discussed was how the budget, set by the University of Alberta, would be shared among the faculties. That's how things stand as far as funding mechanisms at the Faculté Saint-Jean go.

As for investments, provincial funding is paid to the University of Alberta, which then determines how the money is distributed between the Faculté Saint-Jean and the other faculties.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

Has funding for those programs increased following the changes made to transfer payments between the federal and provincial governments?

[Taylor Good]

In terms of transfer payments, I'm not really in a position to answer that question. I don't know enough about it. However, I can say that the modernization of the Official Languages Act made reference to post-secondary education in its preamble. That's a major improvement. It will give post-secondary minority institutions, like the Faculté Saint-Jean, a little more flexibility.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

Are you confident that these programs will continue to evolve and strengthen the French-language skills of Canadians in Alberta?

[Taylor Good]

I'm sorry. Which programs are you referring to?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I'm talking about programs at the Faculté Saint-Jean, generally.

[Taylor Good]

I think Campus Saint-Jean is growing. Based on my experience in education, programs are being developed and the outcomes are positive. Some work still needs to be done in terms of program delivery. We have to make sure that more courses are offered in French so that international and Canadian students who speak French only can take most of their courses in French.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

In your opinion, why is it important for the government to fund minority language educational institutions in the west and in Alberta?

I have an opinion on that, but I'd like to hear yours

[Taylor Good]

I don't have the latest figures with me, but we know that Alberta's francophone community is very big. That's obvious at Campus Saint-Jean, in the francophone neighbourhood of Bonnie Doon. A large number of community organizations serve the francophone and French immersion community.

Post-secondary education in a minority setting is essential, not only for our francophone minority communities in western Canada, but for everyone trying to learn French—I was one of them—and to correct the labour shortage affecting French teachers and health care staff, for instance.

That's why educational institutions like Campus Saint-Jean are critically important.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

What obstacles are preventing the programs from reaching the greatest number of students possible?

[Taylor Good]

That's an excellent question.

I think that a number of factors come into play. First, all the faculties want to expand their infrastructure to accommodate a larger student population.

Next, we have to find staff capable of teaching specialized subjects in French. That means we need funds to bring the staff we're looking for to Alberta.

Finally, I think the third factor is programming. We have to invest in level 300 and level 400 courses, in other words, third and fourth-year courses. These courses have to be available to students in French. As I mentioned earlier, education is the only program that offers that option for now. We have to make sure that arts and science students have the opportunity to take those third and fourth-year courses in French. Otherwise, we could lose these students if their only option is to take their courses in English, which would definitely pose a linguistic challenge.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Good.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mrs. Kusie and Mr. Good.

The next questions will come from the Liberals.

Mr. Iacono, you have six minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

My questions are for both witnesses and require short answers.

How much federal funding does your institution receive for research each year?

Mr. LeBlanc, you may answer first.

[Gino LeBlanc]

We get very little, actually.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

How much does the institution receive?