Official Languages Committee on April 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 95 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) in the motion adopted by the committee on September 20, 2023, the committee is resuming its study on federal funding for minority language post-secondary education.

I'm going to skip over the instructions for Zoom, since everyone now knows how the platform works, since the pandemic. All I ask is that those participating in the meeting virtually mute their microphones until they have the floor.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses. First, we have two representatives from the Commission nationale des parents francophones: Ms. Gillian Anderson, who is the president of the organization, therefore the Mother Superior, as well as Mr. Jean‑Luc Racine, the executive director. By videoconference, we have this young man, Mr. Simon Thériault, who is the president of the Fédération de la jeunesse canadienne-française.

I will explain the meeting's process to you. I think this is the first visit for all three of you to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. You are lucky; it's the committee of the hour on Parliament Hill. We will proceed to a first round of questions, during which each political party will have six minutes to ask questions and listen to your answers. Before starting rounds of questions, we will give you the floor for five minutes at most. I am very annoying and strict on time. However, the more we keep to the time, the more rounds of questions we can have.

We will start with you, Ms. Anderson. The floor is yours for a maximum of five minutes.

[Gillian Anderson, President, Commission nationale des parents francophones]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, honourable members, good morning.

My name is Gillian Anderson and I am the president of the Commission nationale des parents francophones, or CNPF.

Founded in 1988, our network of 12 organizations represents parents living in a minority situation who choose to include French in their lives and that of their children. These parents are often part of an exogamous or multilingual family.

I thank you for inviting the CNPF to testify before you today on the issue of federal funding for minority language post-secondary institutions. I'd like to focus on parents' many needs and concerns for their children's opportunities to continue their studies in French.

A parent is not only their child's first educator, but also their first source of emotional and informational support, from early childhood to adulthood. One study shows that parents' informational and emotional support is the most important source of support for teenagers. In this respect, parents even come ahead of teachers and guidance counsellors. A parent is therefore front and centre when it's time to think about their child's post-secondary education.

Unfortunately, parents don't feel well equipped at all when comes the time to guide their teenager towards post-secondary education in French. As it is, guidance for post-secondary is not easy. Many options are available, and this is a major phase in the life of a young person and their parent. Then, if one wants to continue their studies in French, everything gets more complicated. In reality, access to francophone post-secondary institutions is limited, and they lack visibility.

Furthermore, many parents noted that it was difficult to find information on existing educational programs and francophone institutions. Sometimes, the post-secondary education in French promoted within a high school is relevant only to the local community's francophone post-secondary institution, which leaves few choices. Full and easy access to information on available francophone education and programs is essential.

Moreover, it would be worthwhile for guidance counsellors within our francophone schools to offer better guidance to parents. Regular meetings with parents and their kids would provide the assistance parents need to better support their teenagers' choices when the time comes.

Nothing guarantees that a teenager with a strong francophone cultural and community identity will continue their post-secondary education in French. Indeed, everything depends on actively offering educational programs in French. In Canada, a significant imbalance exists between programs offered in French-language and English-language post-secondary institutions.

Currently, the University of Ottawa offers more than half of all French-language minority educational programs. According to one study, even though the Western provinces' francophone population represents 19.8% of minority francophone communities, French-language programs offered in the region represent only 7.9% overall.

According to that same study, 27.5% of people who studied in French migrated to another province, compared to 10.3% for those who studied only in English.

Self-imposed exile from one's community to continue their education in French is the reality for many francophones. Very often, people who leave their community never come back. This exodus has a significant impact on official language minority communities' vitality and sustainability. That doesn't even take into account how expensive it is to leave one's community.

On this point, it's been proven that studying at a post-secondary level in French in a minority situation leads to higher costs and higher debt for students. According to one study, people who studied at university in French had a higher average debt than those who studied in English. Add mobility costs to that, since they have to move outside their community. Offering more scholarships to francophones who choose to continue their post-secondary education in French, as well as mobility grants for those who have to leave, would support the choice to study in French at the post-secondary level.

In conclusion, real measures are urgently needed to better equip parents so that they can guide their teen towards post-secondary in French. More French-language educational programs are also needed so that students can choose the program of study they are passionate about without being forced to leave. Finally, for better equality, we need more scholarship programs to reduce the debt of young francophones who choose to continue their post-secondary studies in French.

Thank you for your attention today.

We will be happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Anderson.

Before going any further, I want to say that sound checks were successfully performed for all people participating virtually in the meeting. Everything is therefore in order.

I give the floor to Mr. Thériault for the next five minutes.

[Simon Thériault, Board President, Fédération de la jeunesse canadienne-française]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

As the president of the Fédération de la jeunesse canadienne-française, or FJCF, I am very happy to be with you today to present our position on federal funding for minority-language post-secondary institutions.

I want to say that the lands on which I stand are part of the traditional unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq people.

The FJCF is a national organization managed by and for French-speaking youth in Canada. Our members, youth organizations based in nine provinces and three territories, represent the interests of French-speaking youth from 14 to 25 years old. Our expertise therefore rests on young people's experience, and that is the lens we will use to present our observations to you today.

As you are no doubt aware, choosing a post-secondary institution can be complex. In my case, as a youth from northern New Brunswick, I had limited options if I wanted to attend post-secondary education in French. I could choose to stay home and, in so doing, have very limited access to programs on the satellite campus. I could move to an urban centre in my province. I could even go study in Quebec. My case is certainly not unique. All too often, our communities' youth must travel long distances or even move if they want to continue studying their chosen field in French, and this comes at a significant cost.

Despite all this, I'm speaking to you today from a position of privilege, and I recognize that. In fact, I am lucky. I had friends who had to move to another province to continue their post-secondary education in French. Because the costs associated with moving far from home are much too high for some people, they have to go through a virtual program, or they have nothing at all. Let's be honest: it's not easy to pursue post-secondary education in front of a screen, and many people end up dropping out. For others, linguistic insecurity, limited program offerings or basic unfamiliarity with francophone institutions means that they will simply choose an anglophone institution.

Beyond the choice of programs, youth also care about the services they can access on their campus. Indeed, mental health services, student academic success services and accommodation services are essential to ensure better success and reduce dropout rates. Unfortunately, those services are sometimes too limited or not well known in our institutions.

Recognizing the issues of access for youth who want to pursue their post-secondary education in French, the government of Canada created a scholarship program in 2018 for youth with French as a second language. This program delivered results. However, I can assure you that when it comes to post-secondary education in French, the obstacles encountered by youth with French as a second language are the very same among those for whom French is their mother tongue. It therefore makes absolutely no sense that this scholarship program is not available to the thousands of young people proudly attending one of the 760 French-language schools outside Quebec.

The francophone community spaces we need on campus could also help ensure this transition and build better bridges between the community, institutions and students. These spaces could reinforce the feeling of belonging among French-speaking youth and establish important connections between them. Student life is a major factor when comes the time to choose a post-secondary institution. The network of friends that young people create for themselves contributes to their academic success, as well as to their retention within our institutions and communities.

For many young people, mobility is a need. In fact, it's necessary for their academic success, because it allows them to have varied educational experiences. Mobility also allows youth to learn more about our francophone communities from coast to coast. Imagine what it would be like if our institutions had the resources to work together to ensure students' mobility.

Knowledge development, identity building and engagement are essential for development and, above all, for our francophone minority communities' sustainability. Without a doubt, our communities' post-secondary educational institutions play an essential role in community development. These institutions need strong and sustained support, be it for creating infrastructure, offering more modern and sought-after programs, working together, offering specialized services to their students, or even enhancing student life on campus. Building our post-secondary educational institutions' capacity is a strategic investment the federal government can make in our communities.

Thank you for your attention. I'm available to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Both witnesses kept to their speaking time. They are disciplined. I hope the committee members will be the same.

We are moving on to the first round of questions, during which each political party will have six minutes, starting with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will try to lead by example when it comes to discipline.

Ms. Anderson, Mr. Racine and Mr. Thériault, thank you for being with us this morning.

Allow me to highlight Mr. Thériault's dynamism and enthusiasm. It's inspiring to see a young person get so involved and present such relevant observations. I wanted to say so, because young people are our future.

Ms. Anderson, in your speech, you said that support for parents is urgently needed. In your opinion, what would be the first concrete step that we, as legislators, could take to support parents effectively?

[Gillian Anderson]

I have teenagers who are 19, 17 and 15 years old, so I am fully immersed in the situation we are talking about.

There's not enough support in schools. Young people don't have enough access to guidance counsellors. For example, my son would like to pursue his studies at the post-secondary level next year, but he's getting no support at all. I'm the one doing all the research. Even though I am well integrated into the francophone community, I lack the references to help him in the way he needs. Conversely, his best friend, who is attending the anglophone school on the other side of the street, has been getting support since Grade 10 and has already chosen his classes for next year. My son hasn't received even a fourth of that support from his school. It is a big problem.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Are they going to the same school?

[Gillian Anderson]

They go to different schools. The francophone school is on one side of the street and the anglophone school is on the other. Support services offered from one to the next are completely different.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

What province is this?

[Gillian Anderson]

It's in Alberta.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So you're saying that in Alberta, in a francophone school, there is no guidance counsellor.

[Gillian Anderson]

A counsellor is available one day a week. She offers her services to five different high schools in the school board.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So this situation is hampering the guidance of youth who wish to pursue their studies in French.

[Gillian Anderson]

Exactly.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So, in your opinion, increasing services to properly counsel our youth should be a priority. Advice offered by a parent is fine, but sometimes advice that comes from outside is more—

[Gillian Anderson]

Exactly. Young people need support to plan their post-secondary education. They need to pick the right courses in Grade 10 to suit their chosen path. They need to prepare so that by the end of Grade 12, they have everything they need to continue their studies at the post-secondary level. They should also have a plan B in case they don't get into their program of choice. Who should put this plan B in place? Is it up to me, as a parent? Is it up to the school? There's really no communication or support in this regard.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

If I understood correctly, guidance counselors could be one solution to these problems, but there is a lack of resources.

[Gillian Anderson]

Yes, there is indeed a lack of resources and funding in French schools.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Do you have access to comprehensive post-secondary programs in French in Alberta?

[Gillian Anderson]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Can a young person who wants to study in French in Alberta choose a program that can be taken in French from the outset up to a master's degree?

[Gillian Anderson]

From preschool up to grade 12, it's possible.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I meant post-secondary education.

[Gillian Anderson]

Yes, it's possible at the post-secondary level, but there are few choices. That's another problem.