Official Languages Committee on April 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's also an excellent question, but—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Give him at least a moment to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No, I have to treat everyone equally.

We'll have the opportunity to—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Samson makes a good point. The witness should be given a chance to answer the question quickly.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

He could answer quickly, in 30 seconds or 20 seconds, or even 10 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

There will be a second round of questions, if we hurry.

It's now the Bloc's turn. Mr. Beaulieu, you have six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

A long time ago, the Commission nationale des parents francophones commissioned a study entitled “Where did the billions go?” It described the moment when French-language education was banned in every province as crucial. This went on for generations. The bulk of the funding from the Official Languages in Education Program, or OLEP, was given to anglophones in Quebec. I believe they received 47.7% of the funding.

What were the repercussions of that decision? Assimilation was reportedly occurring at a very high rate at the time. Is it still going on, or has there really been a major shift?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

I couldn't tell you if a shift has occurred. To tell you the truth, it's very difficult to know how provinces spend money on education programs. So it's very difficult to track the funding.

A few years ago, we signed an agreement with Canadian Heritage about strategic funds. The idea was to increase transparency within each province's department of education so we'd know exactly how the money was being spent. To this day, it remains very difficult to find out.

Various studies, including some undertaken by this committee, revealed that funds were diverted in some cases, but I would hope that if such situations are reported, they will occur less often.

The Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones would be in a better position to give you the facts. That said, there's still much work to be done to learn exactly how the funds are being spent.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My next question is for both organizations.

I saw a study that showed that French-language university education outside Quebec was underfunded, given the proportion of francophones outside Quebec.

Do you think funding for university education outside Quebec is very important and should be increased?

[Gillian Anderson]

Yes, absolutely. There aren't enough French-language institutions and there aren't enough programs in the ones that do exist. So any investment to increase the number of programs and spaces would be welcome.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

What do you think, Mr. Thériault?

[Simon Thériault]

Our answer is the same. We see glaring problems in our minority post-secondary institutions. For example, there are fewer spaces available than in English-language post-secondary institutions. There are also few choices. As a result, students have to travel greater distances and incur additional costs. What's more, student life may be less appealing at institutions in minority settings than at English-language post-secondary institutions.

Minority post-secondary institutions must be adequately funded to try to address these glaring problems in our communities.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The situation as it stands now seems quite dire. It's evident that post‑secondary institutions are chronically underfunded. As such, shouldn't some degree of balance be restored?

The current situation bears some resemblance to the days when a large portion of funding was channelled to Quebec's English‑language institutions. We still see this today. The portion of funding allocated to English‑language universities by the Quebec government is more than double the anglophones' share of the population. What's more, Quebec anglophone universities receive 35% to 40% of federal research funding. In the meantime, francophone post‑secondary institutions outside Quebec are chronically underfunded.

Shouldn't some balance be restored?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

There should undeniably be a better balance.

I would like to share an important piece of data with you. Roughly 63% of our young people come from exogamous families. I spoke with one father who told me that, while things with his wife were generally going well, a great dispute broke out in his family when it came time to talk about their children's education. Why? Because that topic always presents a dilemma. The anglophone parent wants to consider anglophone universities, which are closer and less costly. The francophone parent, meanwhile, insists on the importance of sticking with French‑language education. Do you see? Education is dividing families. Why is this the case? Because there aren't enough programs to allow our young people to study in French.

That being said, I would like to add one small comment. A huge number of young people who chose to study in a French‑language post‑secondary institution told me that they did so not because of their French‑speaking parent, but rather their English‑speaking parent. In other words, the more the English‑speaking parent is open to French‑language education, the more their child will be encouraged to enrol in a French‑speaking post‑secondary institution. Many young people confirmed this to me. I was shocked to learn this.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's what the research shows.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Beaulieu, you have 20 seconds remaining.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Some people say that this isn't a zero‑sum game, and that the funding for francophone or anglophone universities has no impact on whether people will choose to study in francophone or anglophone institutions. What are your thoughts on this?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please answer in five seconds or less.

[Gillian Anderson]

I would say that a major need exists.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

Colleagues, like me, you have a cell phone or a similar device with a clock built in. As such, I would ask you to respect the established speaking times so that we may have as many rounds of questions as possible.

Mr. Beaulieu, rest assured that I'm not targeting you in particular.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

No, but you did target me.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, I certainly targeted you, Mr. Samson.

We'll continue our journey towards Alberta with a stop in Manitoba, where we can find our NDP representative.

Ms. Ashton, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a stop at the halfway point of our journey.

I want to welcome the witnesses and thank them for their testimony.

Ms. Anderson, I'll begin with you. You shared some similar experiences to what families here in Manitoba are facing.

I wanted to focus specifically on a topic raised by almost every witness in this study, which is the impact of the labour shortage on education. There's a teacher shortage in French‑speaking schools and French immersion programs as well as throughout the entire school system.

Could you speak to us about the situation in Alberta? How is the labour shortage in your community? What impact does this have on French‑language education for your young people?

[Gillian Anderson]

In my community, there's a teacher shortage, no matter the language. We don't have enough teachers, period.

Of course, we're here to talk about French in minority situations. That being said, in my opinion, to solve the labour shortage problem in the education sector, we need to find a new strategy to encourage young people to choose a career in education. Currently, nothing is pushing them to choose this profession, which isn't well recognized. As I mentioned before, I have three teenagers. None of them want to become a teacher. It doesn't attract them.

Our society has changed a lot. We need to find a better way to support future teachers in universities and manage the new reality. Parents are much more involved than they were before, which is a good thing. However, it creates a challenge for teachers. Not everyone wants to deal with parents like I do.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Do you think that the labour shortage has an impact on the stability of education, by preventing burnout in educators, creating a more stable environment and encouraging more collegiality in schools?

Do you think that we need to address the labour shortage in the education sector?

Should the federal government be tasked with this work?