Official Languages Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Sophie Bouffard]

We still have work to do in order to identify all the programs, and we're conducting feasibility studies on that front. However, we also have to provide services and, above all, develop infrastructure to support student life on campus. We have excellent sports teams, but we need the infrastructure to support them, as well as all kinds of activities.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Bouffard.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Mrs. Kusie.

Before we go any further, I just want to let everyone know why I am running the meeting right now. The chair had to go to the House to try once again to table the committee's report on immigration. As first vice-chair, I am temporarily filling in for him.

Now we will go to my colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Official Languages and committee member, Marc Serré for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses from the Quebec English-Speaking Communities Research Network.

During our first hour, Mr. Racine talked about the lack of transparency on the part of the provinces. You said you knew how much funding your institution had been allocated, obviously, but do you know how many French-language programs the Province of Manitoba funds across its total education budget?

[Sophie Bouffard]

It's probably more straightforward in Manitoba, since we are the only francophone institution. As for funding for French education, I would have to check provincial reports to see how much goes to the Bureau de l'éducation française.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Earlier, you talked about recommendations that tied back to what we received from the round table. I bring it up because we're talking about scholarships, infrastructure, a wider availability of French programs and the $80 million in recurrent funding —which we are working to secure with the finance department.

Do you have specific recommendations on how that money should be spent, aside from helping to address the teacher shortage? You need everything, but where should the investment go? Should it go towards infrastructure or programming? What issues do you have in mind, and what kind of partnership do you have with the province?

[Sophie Bouffard]

It's really interconnected, isn't it? If we want to add more programs, we need the appropriate infrastructure so we can accommodate a larger student body. We have to find a way to balance all that. We also need to make sure we have the capacity to serve that population. Linguistic insecurity is top of mind for us, but we should be offering all kinds of other supports. I would say that the big piece really involves the programming.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

All right. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. O'Donnell, for your testimony today. You mentioned that you represent 80 researchers, so you don't necessarily focus on Concordia or universities: You focus on the 80 researchers.

Are they all getting their funding from NSERC, from the tri-agency? Where is the money coming from?

[Patrick Donovan]

We're a network of researchers, so I can't speak to where different researchers are getting their funding. Some of them are university-based. Some of them are in Japan. Some are in universities in the Netherlands. It's a network.

We fund occasional projects with researchers, depending on the money we get, but most of them get funding through their own institutions, and some of them are retired or independent researchers who don't get any funding.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Donovan, you said a few things earlier in response to a question from our colleague, Mr. Beaulieu. I would like to understand your comments better.

You gave the example of McGill University. A number of our cabinet members speak excellent French and studied at McGill University. We have English‑speaking members of Parliament who speak French very well, such as Ms. Koutrakis. She did her CEGEP and finance courses in English.

You spoke of data and statistics on bilingualism. Can you elaborate on this?

Moreover, you seem to have a different view of the situation. People say that English speakers in Montreal may have more advantages, but that places off the island of Montreal, such as Gaspésie, seem to have a complete lack of services in English. What can the federal government do to help you?

[Patrick Donovan]

Regarding your first question, Mr. Beaulieu spoke at length about funding in relation to the weight of the minority. I believe that he was referring to a study by Frédéric Lacroix, which shows that English‑language universities receive more funding in relation to the weight of the minority. My counter‑argument is that McGill University doesn't just serve the minority. Over 70% of its students aren't English‑speaking Quebeckers.

To answer your second question, the availability of services varies greatly across the province. Even in Montreal, there are poorer English‑speaking neighbourhoods, especially in Verdun, and there are wealthier neighbourhoods. There's a great deal of socio-economic variety.

There are many realities in Quebec. The population is declining significantly on the Basse‑Côte‑Nord, for example. All these cases warrant further study and attention, because we're all Quebeckers. It's time to think about how to deal with this.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Donovan.

Thank you, Mr. Serré.

I'll now give the floor to the committee's second vice‑chair, Mario Beaulieu, from the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. O'Donnell and Mr. Donovan, I would like to come back to the Frédéric Lacroix study that we talked about earlier. You questioned the figures. However, suppose it's true that 35% to 40% of federal funding in Quebec goes to English‑language universities. Do you consider this fair?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

Mr. Beaulieu, I gather that you're talking about research funding. You aren't talking about funding for infrastructure or program spending.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

For infrastructure, it would be the same, if not higher, according to your own figures.

Suppose that 35% to 40% of federal research funding for Quebec universities goes to English‑language universities, depending on the year. Do you consider this fair?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

I'm a researcher, not a politician. I find it hard to say whether this is fair. I think that this is about individual researchers applying for funding. So, it's—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'll ask you another question that might be easier.

The federal government's official languages funding for Quebec supports English at a rate of 94%. Is this fair?

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

Are you talking about funding for official language minority communities in Quebec?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Yes.

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

The funding is there to support English‑speaking communities. It's only natural that this funding supports English. It supports a number of projects—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

English speakers are numerically a minority in Quebec. However, unlike the French‑speaking minority communities outside Quebec, they're part of the English‑Canadian majority. They're surrounded by 350 million English speakers, if you count the United States. It makes no sense for English Canada to come tell Quebec that it will support English because it's a minority in Quebec.

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

For English‑speaking Quebeckers, the fragility doesn't lie in language, but in community vitality. Our communities need support. There are issues, as I said, including poverty.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In terms of community vitality, almost everywhere in Quebec, where a certain proportion of the population speaks English, language transfers favour English. When you compare this to French speakers outside Quebec, there isn't any point of comparison.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Mr. Beaulieu, your comment is highly relevant. Unfortunately, Ms. O'Donnell won't be able to respond, because your time is up.

Our final speaker is Ms. Ashton from northern Manitoba. She represents the New Democratic Party.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Ms. Bouffard, my question concerns the teacher training program that you spoke about. Given your current work, how would you recommend that the government help increase the number of French‑speaking teachers?