Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Minister, Mr. Godin’s speaking time is up. I must therefore move on to the next person.

I now give the floor to Ms. Chenette for six minutes.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the President of the Treasury Board for being with us.

You just indicated that learning French is one of your priorities to set an example in your department. Can you tell us what you do, besides occasionally speaking with me in French to learn a few words, to master this beautiful language?

[Shafqat Ali]

Thank you very much, my friend.

We come across this many times, and every time I ask you about a word, how we say it in English. Yes, in this age, I'm learning French. Sometimes pronunciation could be challenging, but that is not a challenge that cannot be overcome. I'm learning from my colleagues, and I'm learning from my staff. I'm taking lessons every week.

Colleague, the question about my understanding of French was, I think, offensive, because we do have our interpreters who translate, and that is a service we have. As the President of the Treasury Board, it's my commitment and it's my responsibility to make sure that across the federal departments and institutions the services are provided in both official languages. However, as the president, I don't have any tools, nor does the act allow me, to impose.... Yes, I can guide. We can set the rules and policy, and that's what we're doing. Yes, I'm focusing and committed to improving my French, and yes, bilingualism remains the core and the heart of our Canadian identity.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you for your commitment.

I just read an article in La Presse this morning that reported that 60.4% of people speak French at home, at least, in the beautiful Montréal region. You are a great example of multilingualism. That is an important reality that is on the rise.

As part of your mandate at Treasury Board, you must ensure that employees who provide services to citizens can adequately respond to their requests in the official language of their choice, either in English or in French, and this applies across Canada. On the other hand, you need to work to ensure that staff learn both languages well.

Can you help us understand the role that Treasury Board plays in providing this learning capacity across government?

[Shafqat Ali]

Thank you very much.

We're improving access to federal services in both official languages across Canada by adding over 700 bilingual offices by 2027. This will raise the percentage of bilingual federal services offices from 34% to over 40%. That is a commitment we have. We are working to improve. There's always room for improvement.

Census 2021 said that English and French remained by far the most commonly spoken languages in Canada. More than nine out of 10 Canadians spoke one of the two official languages at home, at least on a regular basis. The proportion of Canadians who spoke predominantly French at home decreased in all of the provinces and territories except the Yukon. In Quebec, the proportion of the population who speak predominantly French at home has been decreasing since 2001. In Quebec, the number of French speakers is increasing, but their proportion of the population is decreasing. This is not me; this is census 2021.

Then, across official federal departments, we are increasing the capacity of the delivery of services across the country with more than 700 bilingual offices by 2027.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

More specifically, what kind of development program is offered by the government to help civil servants master both languages well? What are the criteria, in terms of the two official languages, for advancing in a leadership role?

[Shafqat Ali]

I think I'll ask my deputy, Secretary Bill Matthews, to respond to those technical questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have about 35 seconds left to answer the question.

[Bill Matthews, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you.

Very briefly, I would say that it starts with the requirements for people who manage employees. We recently strengthened these requirements in June 2024.

The Treasury Board Secretariat has also published a new guide for employees to establish a framework for second‑language learning.

I imagine the 35 seconds are already up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Yes.

Thank you very much, Ms. Chenette.

I now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

First, I’d like to know if you think it’s important for the Prime Minister and the ministers to speak French.

[Shafqat Ali]

In my opinion, everyone should be able to speak in both official languages, but the act and the Charter of Rights give everyone the right to choose to communicate in the language of their choice.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Isn’t it even more important for the Prime Minister and the ministers, who are at the top of the hierarchy, since it sets the tone for the entire public service? If we want to be able to manage employees using their language, we need to know French.

[Shafqat Ali]

Chair, like my colleague knows well, if you speak either French or English, there's translation. It's translated to the second official language. I think it's what the act says or what the Charter of Rights says: that Canadians have a choice to communicate in either French or English, the choice of their....

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In your opinion, French could simply be the language of translation and that would be acceptable.

[Shafqat Ali]

I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You mentioned translation.

On that subject, Mr. Gilles Duceppe, a former leader of the Bloc Québécois, said that there were two official languages at the federal level: English, and the translation of English into French. Do you agree with that philosophy?

[Shafqat Ali]

Chair, I'm here at this committee on my mandate as the President of the Treasury Board. I'm responsible for the coordination and good governance of the act. My department sets policies and monitors compliance, ensuring institutions meet obligations—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I understand your mandate, but that wasn’t the purpose of my question. I will rephrase it to make it clearer.

A major issue we see in the federal public service is that the language requirements for different positions are often not met. For example, when a position requires knowledge of French, it’s accepted that a person who does not know French can be hired, provided that they learn French. However, we see that it’s very difficult. Often, the person is unable to learn it. We saw that in the case of the Governor General. We also saw it in the case of Michael Rousseau, the President and CEO of Air Canada. Clearly, he’s struggling to learn French.

Would you agree that, when hiring someone on the condition that they take French courses, when knowledge of French is a requirement for the position, we should check their skills after a certain period to ensure they have actually acquired a good knowledge of French?

[Shafqat Ali]

We're committed to a bilingual workforce and, since June 2025, in bilingual regions, new supervisors must have advanced proficiency in their second official language, and employees have the right to be supervised in the official language of their choice, and 92% in public service.... We have a bilingual workforce.

I just want to ask my secretary if it's the right information.

[Bill Matthews]

In the case of public servants who hold a position that requires the ability to speak in both official languages, over 90% meet the standards. I think it’s 95%, more precisely. Furthermore, according to the latest survey conducted among public servants, over 90% are comfortable speaking with their supervisor in their official language.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I don’t want to spend too much time on this, but I want to remind you that that is a self‑assessment. Our committee has already conducted a study on this, and we have a lot of questions about that data, at least I do. These are self‑assessments, not actual indicators.

I return to the decline of French.

So French is on the decline, Minister, you agree with that. Moreover, French is in decline according to all linguistic indicators, whether the language used at home, the mother tongue, the language of work or the first official language spoken.

Do you agree that French is in decline and that there is an urgent need to act to counter this decline?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Minister, you have only 15 seconds left to formulate your response.

[Shafqat Ali]

Chair, I'd just like to correct that information. It's 96% of public servants who meet their language requirement; I said 92%. We're committed to actively offering services in both official languages with equal quality and simultaneous delivery across all communications channels.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

With all due respect, you are not answering the questions. You’re sidestepping.