Official Languages Committee on Feb. 26th, 2026

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

Beyond the fact that we're being put in competition with other groups, there's also a lack of understanding that this diversity exists within our communities themselves. Francophone women with disabilities need services in French just as much. So it's important to say that the Official Languages Act exists and that, within it, these various identity factors are recognized and that it is ensured that the needs of the population are being adequately met.

The concrete example is the action plan. It has been mentioned that no measures have been taken. As a result, there are currently no services in French, if only for shelters. That's non-existent in some provinces and territories. So a great opportunity was missed. In other words, it could have been ensured that adequate services were provided and that women who are trying to escape violence could receive services in French. Sometimes it's a life-and-death situation. Basically, it's a minimum right.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Treasury Board must play a leadership role with respect to the modernized act by adopting robust regulations on part VII.

Do you think this could be an example of a situation where Treasury Board could take action by reminding departments of their obligations?

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

Absolutely, but it should be made clear that the concept of “intersectionality” does not mean that intersectionality is fostered beyond the Official Languages Act. The Official Languages Act must first be respected.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Do you have any other examples of positive measures that you would like to see in the draft regulations?

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

Certainly, I have several. The primary objective of a positive measure is to ensure the vitality of communities. As for the situation of women's organizations, core funding is lacking. Some organizations are surviving entirely thanks to volunteers, and they still have to play an advocacy role on behalf of women in their province or territory.

A positive measure is a one that helps ensure core funding for organizations. That's a concrete example.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you very much, ladies.

I will now turn to Mr. Normand.

To start, why are these draft regulations so important for the post-secondary sector?

[Martin Normand]

I've said this before at this committee. I am not someone who is misinformed about the Canadian Constitution. Education is a provincial responsibility, but it's a false argument to say that it's exclusively a provincial responsibility. Research is an area of federal jurisdiction.

In addition, as a result of the obligations in the act and the regulations, the Canadian government assumes responsibility for supporting the strong institutions of the Canadian francophonie, including the post-secondary sector, which is mentioned here.

Because there is a lot of interaction between the federal government's actions and measures that could overlap with federal and provincial responsibilities, there is a possibility of conflict between a federal institution and provincial action, which could hinder the equitable deployment of positive measures in the post-secondary sector across the country.

First, we could imagine cases where a positive measure developed by a federal institution is applied in one province and not in another. In light of that, it is important to establish regulations that can close this loophole, or show that communities are at a disadvantage, as the federal government hasn't acquired the tools it needs to ensure that all communities have equitable access to the positive measures developed.

Second, the act refers to obligations in a number of places. Federal institutions are encouraged to develop positive measures on the development of information that can lead to the development of scientific disciplines. The scientific research that takes place at our institutions nourishes our communities and helps achieve social development objectives. It also has a significant economic impact locally. Without sufficiently robust regulation, we may miss out on a whole range of positive measures that are protected from government action.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

You talked about consultation. You have concerns about the recording of the results and about how the results of those consultations will be used.

Can you tell us why it's important to strengthen that part of the regulations?

[Martin Normand]

I find it astonishing that only impact analyses are being recorded. This information should be made public and shared with the parties involved in consultation exercises. All stakeholders must have all the relevant information to participate effectively in consultation exercises and contribute to research and advocacy efforts on both sides.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Do you have a final word or recommendation?

[Martin Normand]

Of course, I have a number of other recommendations.

I want to come back to the issue of these analyses. There is a lack of detail on how these analyses should be conducted. I have already mentioned that best practices exist. Some departments have developed lenses in collaboration with communities. I believe we need to focus on new tools that are developed collaboratively and enable us to achieve our collective goals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Boutiyeb, you said you were pleased with the budget, which talked about increased funding for women and about gender equality. However, you said that there was nothing specific in the budget for francophone women.

Would you have liked the regulations to specify, in each place where different themes are mentioned, that there should be positive measures or measures for francophone women?

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

Definitely. That's what we're calling for.

I would also say that, in addition, each department must develop a concrete strategy for linguistic minorities. I'm thinking in particular of Women and Gender Equality Canada. That department isn't even part of the action plan for official languages. So there is no concrete strategy for the women of the Canadian francophonie, and that should be important. All departments and agencies should have a strategy. That should be established de facto, in my opinion.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

One way to make the regulations more specific would perhaps be to name the various departments and specify that they must have an action plan not only for linguistic minorities, but also for francophone women.

What do you think?

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

That could definitely be a strategy. Everyone should have an action plan on this.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

A common criticism when it comes to college and university education is that the concepts are not clearly defined in the regulations. They aren't defined, so it's hard to have real clarity.

Do you think there was a way to define what substantive equality meant in relation to college and university education?

[Martin Normand]

It should've been done in the Official Languages Act, if you ask me. It may be a little late in the game to define substantive equality in the regulations. Defining what substantive equality means is no small feat. It's something our board has discussed. I often get asked what substantive equality in post-secondary education means. Figuring out what that looks like is a monumental undertaking. According to the type of analysis provided for in the regulations, it is possible to set targets in progressing towards substantive equality.

Here's an example.

I talked about the wall when it comes to research and the granting councils. They are one type of institution where people are very resistant to the idea of taking language obligations into account. Just read the government's recent responses to reports by the Standing Committee on Science and Research, in which the government belittles the contribution of francophone researchers and minimizes their concerns.

I can't say exactly what substantive equality in French-language research is, but I can tell you what it isn't: It's not what's happening now. The regulations need to encourage federal institutions to act. They need guidance, so that public servants can sit down and develop positive measures, because they finally understand what they are supposed to be doing under the Official Languages Act.

They have to accept that, in French-language research and other specific areas, a diversity of voices has to inform the development of measures. It's important to sit down with the people working at those institutions and to engage in the dialogue and consultations that will result in positive measures that make a real difference.

Currently, the tools in the regulations aren't adequate on that front.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If the services available to francophones and anglophones were of equal quality, would that not be substantive equality? Perhaps that's not a precise definition.

[Martin Normand]

That definition is a bit simplistic, perhaps. The math won't necessarily work in every community. Each community can determine its own timeline for advancing substantive equality.

In post-secondary education, it may be unrealistic to think that every province, every region of the country, will have large institutions that are understanding. It may be better to improve access in certain regions through different types of co-operation.

As I see it, having a centralized definition of substantive equality and imposing it across the board is not constructive.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

There is no blanket approach to substantive equality if the various realities and possibilities are taken into account. Substantive equality has to reflect the realities of different communities. Achieving what we want to achieve will be tough if substantive equality can't be defined.

Won't it?

[Martin Normand]

That's what dialogue and consultation are for. If those activities are well designed, communities will be able to tell federal institutions what their substantive equality timeline is in the context of that consultation.

They could tell Women and Gender Equality Canada, Transport Canada, Global Affairs Canada or National Defence, for example, what substantive equality is. The definitions will vary greatly from one institution and one consultation to the next.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have 45 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.