Evidence of meeting #38 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was draft.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Mr. Beaulieu, I have to interrupt. Your time is well up.
We'll move on to the second round of questions.
I'll turn the floor to Mr. Dalton for five minutes.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you very much.
Thank you to the witnesses for joining us.
Ms. Chouinard, it's always a pleasure to see you. I remember the first time I heard you at committee was during the COVID‑19 pandemic. You had some very clear suggestions and recommendations for us. We're pleased to have you and the Société de la francophonie manitobaine appear today.
If you, or perhaps your child, had a magic wand you could use across the country, especially outside Quebec—I'm an MP from British Columbia—what designated regions would you add?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
Certainly, if I can speak out of self-interest, western Labrador would be good. That's where I grew up.
Looking at the list of regions, we obviously see that Newfoundland and Labrador, British Columbia and Saskatchewan are missing. If there could be at least one designated region in each province, I think it would help francophone minority communities in those provinces not feel as left out by the regulations.
Again, what's in the official languages regulations dealing with part IV of the Official Languages Act would help, because percentage comes into play in the case, for example, of western Labrador. Obviously, it's not a large community, but it's also a very small region with few inhabitants. That would give it a chance to be resilient as far as the entire part IV is concerned.
That's what I would do. Unfortunately, a Ph.D. in political science doesn't come with a magic wand.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Yes, that's what we've heard from other provinces as well, but not from Manitoba. We've already heard testimony from Nova Scotia, and I've received correspondence from people in British Columbia who are a bit disappointed because they don't see how this legislation will help them. They're somewhat discouraged.
You said that it's a bit arbitrary to place more emphasis on concentration rather than vitality. Could you expand on that a bit, particularly with respect to vitality?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
The regions were determined based on data from the 2021 census. That comes with its share of structural weaknesses. I think there would be a way to improve how regions with a strong francophone presence are identified. Your colleague Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault spoke about the different types of data now collected by Statistics Canada. There's the counterexample of the official languages regulations as they relate to part IV of the Official Languages Act, where I admit the framework is a bit more complex. However, I think it more effectively captures the regions where there is a certain vitality of francophone minority communities.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Mr. Bentley, you said that you think these regulations will have a real and significant impact. Could you elaborate on that a little bit? Are there major shortcomings now? You also said that Manitoba is very supportive of francophone communities.
President, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
Where I'm from, we're lucky in the sense that we have designated communities. It's very easy to say that we're lucky, because we know that there are provinces that don't have any designated regions. We also hear about the challenges on the ground. It's clear that these regulations would help ensure that people in most regions with a strong francophone presence can receive services. For us, the focus is really this human experience, for example, how to ensure that a francophone in Manitoba can live in French. If we have more services offered by local organizations, that will certainly help these people. We are fortunate because we have designated regions, and we recognize that this is not the case across Canada under the draft regulations as currently proposed.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Thank you, Mr. Dalton.
I'll now give the floor to Ms. Mingarelli for five minutes.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here today.
I'll start with you, Ms. Chouinard. Based on your analysis, what are the main challenges associated with the obligation of active offer in federally regulated private businesses?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
The main challenge will probably be to find enough employees to ensure that we can respect what active offer means, particularly the obligation. When active offer is implemented, it must be clear from the very first point of contact that the service is available in the official language of a person's choice and, above all, that there is no additional delay when a request is made to be served in that language. That will be the main challenge on the ground.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Thank you.
How can we define an active offer that is both meaningful for consumers and realistic for businesses?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
It depends on the size of the business and the number of frontline employees, so to speak. That question would be more for an HR expert than for me.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Thank you, Ms. Chouinard. I may come back to you a little later.
I'll continue my questions with you, Mr. Bentley.
How could the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act help strengthen the vitality of the Franco-Manitoban community beyond the workplace?
President, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
I'll let Mr. Beaudry answer that question.
Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
In my opinion, it creates an environment where people can choose to live in French, as Mr. Bentley said earlier. That means that, in addition to choosing a French-language school, people can choose to receive government services in French. It also means they can go to a private business and receive services in French. At the same time, this promotes access to employment for francophones in regions with a strong francophone presence. All of this really has a structural impact. I would say that in Manitoba, the other distinctive feature is that it supports the initiative to make the province truly bilingual—an initiative led by our provincial government. That's why we believe that, when it comes to designated bilingual areas, recognizing the provincial legislative framework would be a very positive addition to the draft regulations. This is not currently the case in Ontario.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Manitoba's linguistic reality differs from Quebec's and even Ontario's. How should this reality influence the implementation of the act?
Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
As Ms. Chouinard and I have said, it's important to recognize provincial particularities. In regions where the community is defined as having a large francophone population, I think it's important that we take into account the specific realities of each province and territory across the country.
As Mr. Bentley mentioned earlier, we can see that there is a concentration. The current criteria mean that there is a concentration in areas where there are French-language schools and French-language cultural centres, and where there is already a vibrant francophone community.
As Ms. Chouinard has mentioned on several occasions, these criteria are defined in the official languages regulations under part IV of the Official Languages Act. If all these systems could support one another, we would truly have an optimal system.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Do the criteria used to define regions with a strong francophone presence adequately reflect the reality in Manitoba?
Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
I think there are still many regions to be defined. That's why it would be useful to look at the official languages regulations under part IV of the Official Languages Act. Criteria other than percentage are used. We should draw inspiration from that; we think that's the way forward.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Thank you very much, Ms. Mingarelli.
Mr. Beaulieu, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Beaudry, why did the government decide that in Quebec, the law applies to businesses with 25 or more employees, as provided for in the Charter of the French Language, but that elsewhere in Canada, the threshold is set at 100 or more employees?
In Manitoba, do you think it would be realistic to apply the use of French in federally regulated private businesses act to businesses with 25 or more employees? Is there a sufficient number of francophone staff there?
Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
As Ms. Chouinard mentioned, to ensure consistency, the criteria should be similar across the country. That would be reasonable. There are certainly challenges when it comes to hiring staff in certain regions.