Evidence of meeting #38 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was draft.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Associate Professor, As an Individual
That would be a step in the right direction.
In fact, I might suggest a review of the official languages regulations dealing with part IV of the Official Languages Act to see how it explains what a strong francophone presence is. It doesn't just talk about certain regions. There are criteria on percentages and numerical criteria, which means we could adjust as changes are made on the ground. We wouldn't necessarily need to review this list every five years, as is likely to happen right now.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
What do you think of the Commissioner of Official Languages' proposal to set up a registry of federally regulated private businesses?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
That would indeed help the public get a clearer picture and enable them to know exactly where these various businesses are located and whether they should expect to be served in French.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Ms. Chouinard.
I will now turn to the witnesses from Manitoba.
Gentlemen, if I understood you correctly, the proposed regulations reflect pretty well the regions with a strong francophone presence and the realities of Franco-Manitoban communities. Am I correct?
Jean-Michel Beaudry Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
When we compare ourselves, we take solace in the fact that the legislative framework in our province is probably the most similar to the zones that have been designated by the proposed regulations.
It must be said that there are still about a dozen regions that have yet to be defined in the regulations. The province would define them as bilingual regions, but not as designated regions where the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act would apply. These include communities such as La Broquerie or Ellice‑Archie, where there's a strong francophone presence, whose history has been recognized by the province, but which are not designated areas under the proposed regulations.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
We've heard different opinions about the five-year recommendation. If we ask for five years immediately, until the regulations are in force and applied, there's a concern we won't have enough time to judge their impact or the challenges of enforcing the regulations. We understand the census is digital. However, regarding the overall assessment of the regulations, we heard some comments that five years would be a bit quick to conduct the first review and be in a good position to understand what the challenges of applying the regulations would be. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
If we really see the proposed regulations as a foundation and the idea is to amend them and the criteria to include a bigger ratio of the Canadian francophonie in a minority situation, I think a five-year review could be challenging. However, I also think it would be much wiser to do it after five years than to wait 10 years, knowing it can have an impact on the development of official language minority communities.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Ms. Chouinard, you can come back to this shortly, but it has been suggested the regulations should apply in every province and territory. Do you think that's realistic?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault.
I'll turn the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for six minutes.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Ms. Chouinard. Do you think the Use of French in Federally Regulated Businesses Act really improves the protection of the right to work in French and to be served in French in Quebec, or is it mainly a parallel regime to a Quebec framework that is already largely operational?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
I think it'll still have an impact, but it remains to be seen what it'll be, especially in different regions of Quebec, because, obviously, in some regions, working and being served in French is much less of an issue than in others. I think overall, the signal being sent across the country, including in Quebec, is the right one and it'll have an impact, even though it won't be as drastic as in the rest of the country in terms of the right to work and be served in French.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
There's already a whole francization process under the Charter of the French Language, which has a lot more resources. It seems the Commissioner of Official Languages won't be able to assess the necessary resources. However, it takes considerable resources to supervise businesses and do follow-ups. The commissioner doesn't have more resources. How is she going to regulate businesses?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages will definitely need more resources for this part of its new mandate if the status quo is maintained. It also goes with the rest of its new mandate in terms of fines. It's going to be extremely difficult, given this office is already under-resourced.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
One thing I found a bit odd was that there seems to be some confusion around the registry of federally regulated businesses. We read a while back that 90% of federally regulated businesses had complied with Bill 101. I've read elsewhere that it's more like 60%. We're talking about 400 businesses, but if we consider businesses with fewer than 100 employees, there are more. Is there no registry of federally regulated businesses?
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
That's quite odd, but it'll be really crucial to publish this registry. On the one hand, the minister said he was prepared to negotiate with the Government of Quebec. On the other hand, WestJet told us it was going to withdraw from the application of Bill 101 and be subject to only one regime across the country. Do you think other businesses will follow this example?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
I hope not, and I hope businesses that operate in Quebec and elsewhere in the country won't do the same thing. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know how it's going to work on the ground.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
We'll see.
Mr. Beaudry, the current number of regions where UFPBA is expected to apply is certainly not very large. Do you have to agree to include more than just businesses with 100 employees or more, as the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, I believe, has proposed?
In defining regions with a high ratio of francophones, you said historical context must also be taken into consideration. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Chief Executive Officer, Société de la francophonie manitobaine
I think this ties in with what Ms. Chouinard said earlier. Other indicators were provided for in the official languages regulations dealing with part IV of the Official Languages Act. It talks about the presence of francophone schools and other institutions in a region, which really shows the vitality of the francophonie in those regions, and that should certainly be part of the calculation.
As for the calculations in Manitoba, francophone minority communities are doing better, but there's a lot of work to be done. Many communities, such as Ellice‑Archie and La Broquerie, are very well known as dynamic francophone communities, but there are many others, including Saint-Pierre‑Joly and De Salaberry, where there's a strong francophone presence. We would certainly like to see the act apply in those areas in the future.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
The modernized Official Languages Act talks about a right to remedy. We know that in Manitoba there were laws prohibiting the teaching of French, so I think it's appropriate to take this into account and broaden the application of the act.
Ms. Chouinard, you said you agreed it should also apply to businesses outside Quebec with fewer than 100 employees. Is that correct?
Associate Professor, As an Individual
Yes, that would be preferable.
Reading the proposed regulations, I wondered how they came up with this way of designating regions, as it sets a double standard.
Obviously, I suspect this figure was chosen in Quebec to reflect the Charter of the French Language. That said, some regions with a strong francophone presence may have some nasty surprises. Has any thought been given to the impact on the ground? Were those calculations made or were those numbers—100 employees or less or 500 employees—chosen because it was more administratively manageable? That's the main issue.