Official Languages Committee on Nov. 6th, 2025

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

I'm not in the minds of provincial elected officials who make the decisions. I am in contact with certain people who are truly supportive of the francophonie and are proud that Canada has two official languages.

I don't think it's the case now, but it certainly was in the past. At one point, my husband was told to “speak white”. There was definitely a problem in that regard, even in Quebec, but we're not here to rewrite history.

I seriously believe this is a question of funds, of money. There's a lack of understanding about investment. In the long term, investing in the francophonie pays off, but that's not the case in the short term, and that's where the problem lies. We need to stop thinking about the short term and in terms of our own short-term mandate, and we need to invest in the long term. I am sure that everyone here is convinced that we are richer for having two official languages. It opens doors for us and allows us to be more open-minded.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Yes, I agree with you. However, what's surprising is that, even if there are people in government who are open, the result is that nothing happens, there is still underfunding. So it's a bit like there's indifference. Indeed, if the majority of the population really wanted to support French in British Columbia, that would translate into action.

There is also another factor, which my colleague mentioned earlier, legal cases and Supreme Court rulings. In Quebec, Bill 101 has been largely dismantled by Supreme Court rulings. The Quebec government has rallied behind these rulings. However, in British Columbia, as in several other provinces, there have been Supreme Court rulings, but it seems that nothing is happening. Governments haven't complied with the rulings. Also, you are currently pursuing other lawsuits. I saw an article that even said you were in financial trouble because financing these lawsuits is so expensive.

How do you explain the fact that there is no willingness to respect Supreme Court rulings?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

It's about money. I think we're so busy surviving that we have trouble communicating the added value of the francophonie. It's a bit of a marketing problem: Marketing is expensive, and we don't have the money for it.

When I talk about marketing, I'm just talking about communicating the facts to the entire population. I'm sure that if Canadians who aren't yet convinced understood the merits and benefits of having both languages, particularly the wealth they provide, we wouldn't be here. However, who has the time and the money to do that? I think that's the issue.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Yes. The committee heard from representatives from the Power law firm, which you know well, as I believe you worked together. They showed us that, according to case law, the federal government could directly fund schools outside Quebec. Why, then, is it not doing so?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

I don't understand why it isn't. If it funded the people who do the work on the ground directly, we wouldn't be in this situation, that's for sure. Funding currently goes through the provincial governments. They analyze it, then they give us what they think they should give us.

We wouldn't be in this position if the funding came directly from the federal government. I think it could be done, even though, as we know, education is a provincial jurisdiction. However, official languages are a federal jurisdiction, so it would be possible. I must admit that I don't understand why this isn't currently being done.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

I will have questions for Mr. Potié and his colleague in my next turn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Vis, welcome to our committee. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, BC]

It's a great pleasure to be here.

Mr. Potié, in most cases, French-language instruction doesn't begin until grade 4 in British Columbia. In my experience, children aren't learning much at that stage. Furthermore, teachers generally don't have a good command of French.

Given that teachers from across Canada will be in Ottawa this week, should Parliament consider a measure to improve the level of French proficiency of teachers of French as a second language, particularly in core French education?

[Francis Potié]

It's definitely a challenge. As I said earlier, there is a shortage of core French and French immersion teachers. The popularity of French immersion programs means that all teachers capable of teaching French are hired by immersion schools. This reality exacerbates the shortage of French-as-a-second-language teachers.

What can we do? A number of studies have been done on the subject. Certainly, language training for teachers is important. In some provinces, there are teachers who don't speak French, but who teach French. Then it comes as a surprise that the results aren't satisfactory.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, BC]

This is a normal situation in British Columbia.

[Francis Potié]

This is a normal situation. It's like asking me to teach trigonometry. I don't know about trigonometry; I couldn't teach it. So the situation is not optimal.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, BC]

Canada has a Red Seal program at the national level. Along the same lines, could we consider offering teachers a diploma program that would make it possible to ensure that they meet standards and know French well enough to teach it? For instance, it could be an online program offered by the federal government.

[Francis Potié]

We would obviously support a national standard on what constitutes adequate training for a language teacher. This touches on matters of federal and provincial jurisdiction. The federal government certainly has a role to play, not only when it comes to funding allocated to the provinces and school boards, but also when it comes to monitoring the funds provided to them to ensure that they are used effectively. That's not always the case, and we often hear about it. Better accountability methods are needed if funds are to have a real impact in the classroom.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, BC]

I really agree with you and I know that everywhere, and particularly in British Columbia, there are problems with the use of money earmarked for school boards for teaching French.

However, we still have good news in British Columbia.

Ms. Dubois, a new French-language public school will be built in Abbotsford in the next few years. Could you talk about the impact it will have? Do you think it will be sufficient to meet the needs of students and the demand in the province?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

It's a first step. There is no doubt that the students who will attend this school will, among other things, relieve congestion in other schools because some students travel long distances. It's obvious that this school will fill up quickly and could become overcrowded. Still, we're very happy.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, BC]

We should have a party when it's built.

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

Yes, absolutely.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Villeneuve for five minutes.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Dubois, first of all, my colleague mentioned Canada's debt, but I'd like to put things into perspective: Canada is the G7 country with the lowest net debt, and it has been given a perfect rating by Moody's.

That said, you spoke earlier about agreements that are often renegotiated late. My question is twofold. First, what is the reason for the delay, and second, does British Columbia sufficiently consult community organizations like yours before negotiating its agreements?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

I would say that there are no negotiations. I'll give you an example. It's not about education, but it will give you a glimpse of how things work in British Columbia.

We had a meeting with representatives of a federal department, who were very proud to announce that the federal government had completed negotiations with the province on funding for employment assistance services. However, they hadn't consulted us, even though the modernized Official Languages Act had just been passed. As you can see, even federal departments don't know how to apply the policies. If the federal government doesn't consult us before signing agreements with the provinces, how do you expect the provinces to feel obligated to do so with us? It's a huge struggle.

However, we have some good-faith connections with the minister responsible for francophone affairs, who is pro-francophone and has worked very hard to get a policy on French-language services adopted. We have a good relationship and are working together to make progress for our francophone community.

The problem is that there's too much bureaucracy. It comes back to what I was saying earlier: Why add a player to the equation? Why not put the money directly where it should go? As Mr. Potié mentioned, when you give money to the provinces and then they hand it out wherever they want, it reduces effectiveness.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

You're not the only one talking about the problem of not transferring federal money directly to the organizations themselves. I can tell you that this information has been noted in other committee meetings. Thank you for raising that.

As we know, the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique plays a central role in defending language rights. What progress have you seen in implementing the francophone education continuum in your province?

[Marie-Nicole Dubois]

At the moment, the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique is working very hard to open early childhood centres. That, to me, is a huge step forward.

Apart from that, we are in a constant struggle. Some schools are opening, but it's never enough. There's not a lot of progress, let's put it that way.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

That's noted. Thank you, Ms. Dubois.

Mr. Potié, I'm going to give you a chance to continue your answer to my colleague's question on how to strengthen retention in French. Since you weren't able to finish your answer earlier, I'll give you the time to do so.

[Francis Potié]

Several studies have been done on this subject, and certain themes keep coming up. First is training. Teachers need skills in the language they teach. If they don't have them, they will quit the profession.

There are also teaching skills, because language teaching has evolved a lot. When we adopt that, things go much better.

There's also professional isolation. We teach a subject that no one else teaches. No one understands us. The administrators and colleagues don't understand the material and don't value it. It creates professional and personal isolation, which makes people want to do something else. These are things that we need to invest in and pay attention to in order to change the system and move forward.

As a final point, it's not just language teachers who are struggling; it's teachers, period. We hear that. There are shortages everywhere. However, it may be more acute for language teachers. It's a systemic problem. Again, there are plenty of reports and studies that show this.

It's really going to take serious dialogue and serious thinking to change our education systems. Otherwise, we're going to have teacher shortages for years to come.