Public Accounts Committee on May 4th, 2006

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms Danielle Bélisle]

Honourable members, I see a quorum.

Your first order of business is to elect a chair.

Are there any motions to that effect?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I would like to nominate Mr. Murphy.

[The Clerk]

It has been moved by Mr. Lake that Mr. Murphy be chair.

Are there any other motions to that effect?

I declare the motion carried and Mr. Murphy duly elected chair of the committee.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I have a point of order, Madam Clerk.

First of all, I'd like to congratulate Mr. Murphy on this onerous task that he has taken upon himself by this election. However, given the record of the Liberal Party in the past, I just wondered if you could rule that it is appropriate that a Liberal be in the chair for the next year or so, so that we do a complete investigation of the record of the past governments as well as the one that's in place today.

[The Clerk]

Unfortunately, I'm only a clerk. The clerk cannot receive any type of motion and cannot entertain points of order nor participate in any debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

As chair, I will take that motion under advisement and rule on it at a later time.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Etobicoke Centre, Lib.]

And any friendly amendments that come along with it.

[An hon. member]

And the Mulroney days.

[The Clerk]

Could we proceed to the election of the first vice-chair?

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I nominate Brian Fitzpatrick as the first vice-chair.

[The Clerk]

It has been moved by Ms. Ratansi that Mr. Fitzpatrick be first vice-chair of the committee.

Are there any other motions?

Seeing no other motions, I declare the motion carried and Mr. Fitzpatrick duly elected first vice-chair of the committee.

Now we'll move on to the second vice-chair.

Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I nominate Mr. Benoît Sauvageau.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Nadeau moves that Mr. Sauvageau be elected second vice-chair of the committee. Are there any other nominations? No.

I declare Mr. Sauvageau elected second vice-chair of the committee.

I now invite Mr. Murphy, as chair of the committee, to take the lead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, first of all, for your support.

We have a few routine motions to deal with. The clerk is gathering the documents right now for circulation. While she's doing that, the first item I want to deal with is to thank John Williams for the service he's given this committee.

I don't know whether everyone is aware or not, but John has been the chair of this committee for the last nine years. That's totally unheard of in Parliament here, where they revolve committee members and chairs quite frequently--actually, too frequently. John has made the workings of Parliament and the workings of the public accounts committee his passion for the last nine years and he has certainly done a terrific job.

John, on behalf of the committee--in fact, all of Parliament--I want to thank you very, very much.

I want to tell you, John, that nothing would make my heart warmer than to have you back in the chair.

Unfortunately, John right now is not eligible, but if we all do our work as parliamentarians, John will be back in the chair and we'll all be happy to see him here.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Not if everybody does their part, only if the other parties do their work and defeat us. But that is, as you all know, a long shot.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

To the new members of the committee, I do want to welcome you, and I think it's going to be a very interesting committee.

If anyone's been following the developments of the committee over the last 24 months, you'll know we've gone through a very challenging and interesting time. Certainly with the sponsorship inquiry and some of the other inquiries we did, it was very interesting. I believe we're in a period of transition. For those of you who are not aware, a lot of the recommendations that arose out of the Gomery commission actually came from this committee. The ones that I consider to be the three or four most important ones came about as a result of this committee, and we didn't spend $82 million doing it. Anyway, that's the long and the short of it.

I would refer the members of the committee to the recommendations of the Gomery report dealing specifically with the public accounts committee, especially those urging the government to give this committee more resources. The second recommendation is that the people appointed to this committee serve for the life of the Parliament. I forget the third one, but it's all there in the Gomery report, colleagues. I think it's important that we look at it and follow up so that we do get a response from the government on these particular recommendations.

Again, a lot of the recommendations that follow from Gomery are actually included in the Accountability Act that is now before Parliament. I'd urge the newer committee members to read the previous reports of this committee, especially the last two or three we wrote regarding the accountability in government and the accountability of deputy ministers and the government's response.

I've been on the committee for five and a half years, and I've enjoyed it immensely. I've learned a lot in the committee. On certain occasions during the sponsorship hearings, the issue of partisanship did arise, but by and large there has always been a non-partisan spirit in the committee, and that's when it works the best. Most of our reports--and I think it's all but one or two over the last five and a half years--have been unanimous reports, including the last two reports, which we did a lot of work on.

There are a couple of other housekeeping matters I want to point out. It happens by total coincidence that the annual meeting of the Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committees that revolves from province to province each year is being held in Charlottetown this September. I believe the dates are between September 10 and 12. I invite every member of the committee to attend that, and I'll certainly host you when you get there. I think it will be very enjoyable.

That concludes my remarks. Again, I think you're going to enjoy it, and I hope we all do what we're supposed to do. I certainly will do my very best. If I don't, I have Mr. Williams watching over my shoulder.

I'm glad, John, that you're on the committee. I think you'll add a lot to it.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Williams.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Again, I want to congratulate you on your appointment as chair of the public accounts committee. Your work as a vice-chair in the last Parliament was much appreciated. Your support in ensuring that the committee did its good work on a largely non-partisan basis was much appreciated.

I've said that the public accounts committee has enough work focusing on accountability without getting into the partisan politics of policy—we don't deal with policy—and that's when the public accounts committee does its best work. I certainly look forward to participating on the committee under your leadership.

Thank you very much, and congratulations again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, John.

Mr. Christopherson, go ahead, please.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Right at the get-go, maybe it's good for the new members to hear a representative from each caucus chime in that indeed as much as possible in the last Parliament—not every time, but just about every time—we were able to reach unanimous consent. For the most part, there is really an effort to try to be non-partisan. When we do become partisan, it's big time. It follows what's happening in the House, and it can get ugly. But those moments are rare, acute, and they don't last too long.

I wanted to emphasize that certainly from my personal view, I specifically asked my leader to put me back here, because I enjoyed it and the fact that it was more than a partisan wrestling match. We actually do work that for the most part is important enough that it goes beyond partisan activities. It's about the institution of Parliament and making sure that, no matter who's in the chair and who's in the government, the institution serves the government that's elected, serves the members of the House, and most importantly, serves the people of Canada. In the last Parliament, certainly in the last committee, every one of us believed that.

With that, I'll only say how thrilled I am that you're in the chair, Mr. Murphy. I have every confidence that you'll do an excellent job. You have huge shoes to fill, but I have no doubt that you'll give us the leadership we need. I think it is helpful that Mr. Williams is here, given his vast knowledge of all these areas.

With that, I will again congratulate you and thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you.

Mr. Sauvageau.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Christopherson is entirely correct. Since I'm seated right beside him, I would also hope that we remain on very good terms. We mustn't get into any arguments, otherwise it could prove dangerous.

First of all, I want to congratulate the chairman. We've had the opportunity to serve on the same committee. In fact, I also sat on the previous committee. I hope that we can engage in non-partisan debates as often as possible. Indeed, more often than not -- and we'd have to check into that -- we have tabled reports for which there was unanimous consent. That's very positive. We will seek out cooperation and good will as long as the committee operates. However, disagreements may arise from time to time. When that happens, we mustn't indulge in partisan politics, but rather, be receptive to different values and opinions.

As usual, rest assured that you will have our full cooperation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Sauvageau.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I perhaps have a point of clarification. Following up on Mr. Christopherson's comments about huge shoes to fill, I'm sure you'll be able to do that.

One thing that I don't think you'll be able to match is Mr. Williams' collection of ties. But I am thankful that he is on the committee, because I've never seen such an amazing selection of pink ties. I'm glad to see both of you here.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

David is trying to solicit me for an NDP membership, but I have refused—at least so far.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's only a temporary setback, John.