Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was accounting.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Danielle Bélisle
Sheila Fraser  Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
William Baker  Former Commissioner, Canada Firearms Centre, As an Individual
Charles-Antoine St-Jean  Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
John Wiersema  Former Comptroller General of Canada, As an Individual
Morris Rosenberg  Former Deputy Minister and Deputy Attorney General, Department of Justice, As an Individual
John Morgan  Acting Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management and Analysis Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
Peter Kasurak  Senior Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Bill Matthews  Senior Director, Government Accounting Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
Frank Vandenhoven  Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Susan Cartwright  Assistant Secretary, Accountability in Government, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
Wayne Ganim  Former Director General, Finance, Department of Justice, As an Individual
Brian O'Neal  Committee Researcher

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Thank you very much, Mr. Morgan.

If there's no one else, I would thank all the officials. It's been a very long meeting. I understand that some of you had a previous meeting from 9 to 11, so it's been a very long day.

Again, on behalf of everyone on the committee, I want to thank you for your attendance and for being here today. Thank you.

Colleagues, we're now going to go to the last item on the agenda, and that is the circulation, discussion, and approval of the minutes of the steering committee. I believe everyone has that in front of them.

We'll suspend for two minutes and then come back to do the steering committee minutes.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Colleagues, I'll call the meeting back to order.

First of all, the minutes of the steering committee meeting, which was held on May 18, have been circulated to everyone. If I may, I'll highlight the four paragraphs.

I'll explain the first item. The report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure deals with the report, the eight chapters set out in the report of the Auditor General that was tabled in November of last year. As you will recall, we went to an election shortly after that, and this committee did not have an opportunity to examine any chapters. When we look at the chapters, we're probably not going to get to many of them, if any.

Someone on the steering committee made a recommendation that the committee write to the departments concerned for an update on the auditor's recommendations that were set out, and we'll get a response from any committee. That's the first item on the steering committee.

The second item, colleagues, is we had a decision to make to recommend to the committee what chapters we would deal with in this committee. Of course, we all realize that we don't know exactly when the House is going to end, but we have to proceed on the assumption that we only have seven meetings left.

We had previously decided that we would have a special meeting to talk about some of the efficiencies of the committee, but we decided to prioritize the chapters. You can see that our first priority was the chapter that you just heard about, the second priority was the first nations, and then you can see it was the PWC acquisition of leased office space. We're positive that we won't get to the six of them, but we'll take them one at a time. Depending on the schedule, we may have to interpose one with the other if there is a problem with witnesses, but we'll certainly inform you of that.

The third item is especially important for new members who were elected in the last Parliament. In the last Parliament, this committee wrote an extensive report dealing with the accountability of ministers and deputy ministers. We made a number of recommendations, and the government responded. It's certainly my feeling and it's the feeling of other members on the committee that the response on certain issues was not adequate or we certainly weren't satisfied. We request that this committee re-table or re-submit our report and get a response from government on those certain recommendations.

The last item is that, following up on the meeting on the leak, we write the government for an update on the results of their investigation, which they indicated they were going to do.

Does anyone have any questions on the minutes?

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, could I point out a bit of an historic occurrence here?

In the public accounts committee, Mr. Sauvageau usually points out incorrect translations from English to French. We have an incorrect translation from French to English in point 3, “recommandations”. We have the French version in the English. I'm sure it's only a typo.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Okay. We'll correct that, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

At 2.1, there should be no comma after “limited”, because it kind of changes the way it's worded, and it's not “goveredment”.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Okay. Is there anything else, any other discussion?

No, okay. The chair would entertain a motion for the approval of the minutes.

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

I so move.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Okay, thank you very much.

(Motion agreed to)

2 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Before we leave, I just want to have a very brief discussion. We just concluded the meeting on the accounting allocation issue and I want some direction from the committee on where we go from here.

Mr. Fitzpatrick made a good point. We were not able to wrangle in Mrs. Bloodworth for this meeting, as she's out of the country, and we don't have the two legal opinions that we are getting--very shortly, I understand. The steering committee, certainly, didn't want to spend an awful lot of time on it.

Perhaps, if I can throw out a suggestion, we could continue to attempt to get Mrs. Bloodworth to a committee--make it one hour, maximum, for her--and also have a discussion and review of the legal opinions. Then perhaps, if we finished up with Mrs. Bloodworth in half an hour, we could use it up as a general discussion in camera--the first discussion--as to the direction of the committee report.

Does anyone have anything...?

2 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I think it would be useful to have in the person from Public Works who was at the February 2004 meeting. I don't think that was her.

2 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

My clear understanding is that it was her; she was there.

2 p.m.

An hon. member

No, she was from Public Security.

2 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Okay, Public Works. We can follow that up.

2 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I don't know who it was.

May 30th, 2006 / 2 p.m.

Brian O'Neal Committee Researcher

We have some names from Public Works.

2 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Public Works never missed a meeting all the way through this thing. They're one constant.

2 p.m.

Committee Researcher

Brian O'Neal

They can speak to whether or not this was a contract or....

2 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Is everyone in agreement with that, Public Works and Mrs. Bloodworth?

2 p.m.

Committee Researcher

Brian O'Neal

You might want more than an hour, then, Mr. Chair.

2 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

We'll have another steering committee meeting anyway, but that's the direction given to this committee.

Does anyone have any problem with having an extra meeting, if it's possible? It depends on her schedule, but we have to—

2 p.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

An extended meeting would be fine. We could extend our meeting.

2 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK

An extended meeting might be better than trying to find another day.

2 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Okay, the committee will take that and we'll proceed in that manner. Again, these are subject to other people's schedules, but we'll certainly pursue it aggressively.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.