Evidence of meeting #55 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
The question was, how old were your children? You're going to have to answer that question.
As an Individual
I am going to answer the question, Mr. Chairman; I just wanted to clarify something.
Conservative
Conservative
As an Individual
Mr. Chairman, allow me to point out that, when the company recruited and placed consultants, my children did not do the work themselves. We suggested candidates to third parties.
Conservative
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I hope the clock is not running.
I'm just asking that the witness answer a very simple factual question. He claims that the company was not under his control, but rather his children's. I just want to know how old they were. It should be a very simple question to answer. Obviously he would know how old his children are today, and chronologically go backwards to ascertain how old they would have been at the time. It's a very simple question, and he's running down the clock.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Well, you would think he would know how old his children are. That's—
As an Individual
Of course I know how old my children are, Mr. Chairman. My wife was the CEO of the company and my two children were shareholders. My son is now 18 years old and my daughter is 17. This was in 2003. My children were therefore four years younger. My son would have been 13 and my daughter 12.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay. So your children of 13 and 14 were taking responsibilities and running your business. So you had no involvement in the business any more?
As an Individual
Mr. Chairman, it would seem that the honourable member has a very active imagination. My wife was in charge of the company. Once a month, she was issued a completed service certificate, signed by the appropriate authority, and she then billed Consulting and Audit Canada. Mr. Chairman, it was my wife who managed the business.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
This relates to my question, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, again, I don't want to raise another point of order. All I was trying to say—and obviously the witness is very defensive on this point—is that it seemed rather curious that he no longer had any involvement in the business when he'd gone on to work at Public Works, given that he had turned over some authority for running that business to his children, who were in their early teens. It does hearken back to some of the youngsters who have been involved in giving political donations that we've seen. Now we've learned that there are some who are involved in running businesses that are in blind trusts.
I'd like to get some factual timelines for when the ministers found out about these activities. Mr. Marshall, you said you briefed your minister in 2004 on these contracting irregularities at CAC?
Deputy Minister, Public Works and Government Services Canada
Mr. Poilievre, I'm just trying to remember.
I think we briefed the minister in early 2005. That would have been about March and April of 2005.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
March and April, 2005.
Mr. McEvoy, when did you start to send over draft audits to the departments?
Associate Partner, KPMG
We were dealing with CAC as a client—Mr. Jackson—from the time we were engaged in October until about early April, when we first met with Mr. Marshall. So we were providing regular updates.
Conservative
Associate Partner, KPMG
Late in October 2004, we were engaged. We were providing regular updates to Consulting and Audit Canada from the period of October through to the end of March. We met with Mr. Marshall in early April to provide a brief.
Conservative