Evidence of meeting #55 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Okay.
After meeting him, how long did it take you to decide that he met the requirements of the contract?
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I did not have the necessary qualifications to determine if the gentleman was qualified or not. He had worked at the RCMP for a number of years. I put his resume into the data base. I was invited to submit his name, and I filled out the bid form based on the gentleman's resume. I then asked him to sign a statement confirming that the information contained on his resume was true. That is the way all companies proceed. The other companies also submitted names, I assume.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
It was not up to Abotech to determine if the person was qualified or not?
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Okay.
Tell me about your relationship with Mr. Brazeau.
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Brazeau comes from the same small town I do. I was born in Maniwaki, a beautiful little town of 5,000 inhabitants. My father was a dairy farmer. So we would go door-to-door and we knew everyone. Mr. Brazeau's mother is my cousin. His grandmother and my mother were sisters. I would see Mr. Brazeau at funerals.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
I have one more question.
Tell me about the relationship between the two of you when he was in government and you were at Abotech. How much business did you do together while he was at CAC?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
In the later years, I had been active at Abotech for about a year or a year and a half. I met with him on several occasions and followed up with some phone calls. We did not see each other socially.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
May 7th, 2007 / 3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon.
Mr. Crupi, in light of all of the evidence that we have heard at previous meetings, I would like to know if Mr. Ewanovich or someone else took away your authority to sign contracts in June 2002.
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Ewanovich told me I shouldn't be signing financial authorities. He revoked financial authorities, but he said that would be the same for all his managers, because they were all having trouble with procurement. They set up a committee and a sign-off process and that sign-off process had six or seven signatures. Where I would sign that this was the work that needed to be done, there would be financial signatures: Mr. Ewanovich's signature, a procurement signature, etc. That was the process that was set up after that time.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Your authority to enter into a contract was taken away, but you nevertheless continued to do it?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I never ordered contracts; procurement would do that. The process was set up, and that was the process I advised my person, who was the procurement officer, to follow. My person followed that process, got the required signatures, and it would flow through for final authorization by Mr. Ewanovich, as the person who was authorized to sign at the end. So I didn't do that kind of process.
I think there was a glitch when CAC came in. Because it was government to government, I was advised by one of my people that I could sign an MOU. We signed an MOU, but on the MOU there would also be signatures of financial authorities. I believe there were six signatures. I can't remember exactly whose they were. I don't have the MOU.
And it would process through a normal procedure. Finance would have been advised, because we would have set up an accounting process whereby money would come out of it when it was charged by CAC, for example, if we set them up as an agent that could charge.
Procurement then came to us and said their signature would be required. But we always used that sign-off process, the A5 sign-off process, which was all the people who could sign. But once procurement said they had to do it, we apologized. We didn't know that was the process. Procurement never told us that was the process.
So we changed the process. They redid the memoranda of understanding. And their signatures were on all of them.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Before you were asked to stop signing off on contracts and the procedures were changed, had you ordered any contracts through Mr. Brazeau?
Did you have any say in this process or any information on the people who received the contracts, such as the names of the companies or the people who managed them? Did you have that information?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No. I was privy to information in terms of—When I met with Mr. Brazeau, the one time—I met with him for about an hour—he said there was a process that was vetted through his organization that was approved, and my individual followed that process. He had asked for a list of contractors that we had on site or contracts that were ending, and for the end dates of those contracts.
My individual did that. Mr. Brazeau advised that these people would be in a position to be invited to bid, but he could guarantee that none of them would win the contract. They would have to bid in their own right. So I don't know who he bid out to at all. I don't know what lists he bid out to, or if there were 15 or 20. I really was very much at arm's length at that time.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
According to the KPMG report, the rules state that a retired federal public servant cannot obtain contracts directly.
Is that in fact correct?
4 p.m.
As an Individual
I understood there was a rule that you couldn't obtain contracts directly for a period of time. I can't recall if it's six months or a year. I think there's a rule like that.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
My next question is for either Mr. Brazeau or Mr. Crupi.
I would like to know whether you are aware of any contracts having been awarded to retirees who would have been unsuccessful in their bid, had they not used Mr. Brazeau or another firm as a middleman. That is what the KPMG report implies.
4 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't know, from a legal perspective, how to answer your question. I imagine people are retired, and they approach consulting companies for contracts. From there, I don't really know how it works. I imagine that could happen.
4 p.m.
As an Individual
It is common practice in government for consultants or former employees, for example former members of the Canadian Forces or retired public servants, to go through companies. It is common practice.
