Public Accounts Committee on May 28th, 2007

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

Auditor, the benchmark that the RCMP established was 30 days. They're averaging 114. In certain jurisdictions, such as Ottawa, I understand it's significantly worse.

On average, do you agree that there's about an 84-day delay?

[Sheila Fraser]

With the target date that they had established, yes.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

I'd like to come back to an observation you made in your paragraph 7.20, under observations and recommendations: “More important, delays endanger public safety by giving criminals more time on the street to re-offend.”

I had previously asked whether or not these delays were in fact endangering public safety. It appears that in 7.2, that's exactly what you're stating. Is that correct?

[Sheila Fraser]

The possibility is there. I believe when you had asked earlier, you were making a statement that the delays had created that, and we were saying that we cannot conclude that from this audit. But the potential is there, of course, that investigations will take longer and be delayed because of that.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

So the potential is there and you've noted it in your observations.

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

When I take a look at the processes being used--

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

This is your last question.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

In exhibit 7.4, it shows that we have four compartments, four separate steps, four different groups of people who do our analysis. In places like the U.K. or Sweden, do they use this methodology, or do they use one team that follows a particular piece of evidence through the whole process?

Well, I suggest, in that case, that's something worth looking into.

Thank you.

[Commr Beverley A. Busson]

Sorry, there is an answer to that question. I was looking to Joe to answer it and he thought I was going to answer.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Sure, go ahead. We want to hear the answer.

[Dr. John Bowen]

There are various similarities in the way in which we process samples. They do have the same functionalities. Generally they have a reporting officer who deals with the case from start to finish as a supervisor, but there's not an individual who does each step within a case. It's a group of individuals. So it is very similar.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

In the U.K., Sweden, or both?

[Dr. John Bowen]

I can't speak to Sweden, only the U.K.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Now we'll hear from Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think it's right, at the close of the meeting here, or getting close to it, that we say congratulations to you, Madam Fraser, on your fifth honorary degree.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Sheila Fraser]

Thank you.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I was allowing the rest of my colleagues to take that, but they didn't, so congratulations.

Congratulations too to Commissioner Busson. I was just asking my colleague about it--he's been here much longer than I have, although he says he's not Methuselah--and I don't recall ever having a response this sophisticated from a report. With the action plan and the dedication, I feel very positive and hopeful. Thank you for that.

I want to ask some questions around the diary dates and the targets. Obviously that's where there has been some real concern. Those expected diary dates are discretionary by you, is that correct?

[A/Commr Joe Buckle]

That's correct. Those expected diary dates are based upon the system response. We've started to change that process. In November 2006 we rolled out a new pilot project to look at priorities and response times to each of the various priorities. It's on a grid, based upon the Criminal Code and the seriousness of the case.

The actual intake process works very well. Our clients are telling us in Alberta, where we did the pilot project, that it works very well. Now the next step is to look at what those actual response times will be for the various grids, A1, A2, A3.

It should be noted that 60% of our cases are in the serious category, in the A category, and this week we actually reduced the turnaround time for those to 102 days. So we're already seeing an improvement.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

But I'm just saying—à la Deputy Commissioner Martin's phrase—that if you have a turnaround date of 100 days but you have the full discretion to say when you diarize that, then that turnaround date could really be 300 days, depending on when you decide you've received it.

[A/Commr Joe Buckle]

Absolutely, and that's what we want to get away from.

Our new system is actually based upon what the police will tell us. We no longer will have intervention on those diary dates. What they tell us will actually be used in there.

What we will be getting away from is trying to be all things to all folks. We will take resources away from the lesser-priority areas and move them into the higher-priority areas to ensure that we hit the diary dates.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Okay. Am I hearing that in the very—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Can I just interrupt for a minute here? It's a point.

There's a reception being held to my left on this side, so if anybody is leaving the meeting, go through the back entrance. We've been instructed by the officials here to go through that back entrance, if you could.

I'll just turn your time back here, Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you very much. I'm glad you mentioned that.

The expected diary date, then, is it on a death watch? Are we going to see an elimination of that term, and then it will just be “Received”, and a target date?