Evidence of meeting #6 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was leblanc.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I will call this meeting to order. I want to welcome everyone here. Bienvenue à tous.
This is a meeting pursuant to Standing Order 108, chapter 5, Management of Programs for First Nations, of the May 2006 Report of the Auditor General of Canada, referred to the committee, of course, on May 16 of this year.
Mr. Fitzpatrick, go ahead, please.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I think we have some points of order, maybe points of privilege, that we would like to deal with before we get into this, Mr. Chair.
The first one I want to bring up is that, as I have said on a number of occasions, I take silence as acceptance on these matters, but I've been insistent that in regard to the chapter we dealt with the other day, we should be having the Deputy Minister of Public Works or officials from Public Works at this meeting, especially the ones in charge of acquisitions. There have been a whole lot of debates about whether something is or isn't a contract. These people were involved with these meetings. I haven't seen any of them.
So that's point number one.
The other point I really am quite upset about is that the minister has waived the client-solicitor privilege, and we still have not received the legal opinion provided by the lawyers in question. I'm quite perturbed about this matter. I think we should have had that before we had a meeting the other day. It's a very key, important document, and it's really very upsetting that we still don't have it. I don't know who's dragging their feet on this issue, but I think both of these matters should be clarified forthwith.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Fitzpatrick, what you've raised is not technically a point of order, but we will deal with it.
We have been able to contact Mrs. Bloodworth, who, we all agreed, is very important, and she's confirmed for a date. We can, if it is your wish and the committee's desire, call in someone from Public Works also.
We were discussing the issue of the legal opinions as early as half an hour ago. They're still in the process of translation. We expect to have them.... Is there an exact time?
11:10 a.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Danielle Bélisle
The shorter one is supposedly being faxed now at my office and the longer one is being revised by the lawyer who wrote it to make sure the French is equivalent to the English.
11:10 a.m.
The Clerk
No. I mean he's revising the French translation.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
We translate statutes here that are really thick into both official languages. This has taken a long time. I find that an unacceptable explanation.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
On this issue, Mr. Chair, I have two things to say. One is that I'm absolutely aghast to find that we do not have this legal opinion translated and delivered. As Mr. Fitzpatrick points out, we translate thousands of pages every day. Therefore, I request that this legal opinion, all the opinions that we require, and--I would also request-- a letter from the department to the Department of Justice requesting that a legal opinion be brought before this committee be delivered to the clerk of the committee by noon tomorrow, and if they're not delivered by noon tomorrow, that the Deputy Minister of Justice be here at our next meeting to explain why.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay.
With that, we'll report to all members of the committee on those two issues. I agree with Mr. Williams and Mr. Fitzpatrick that these things really should have been in our hands. We'll ask for the letter asking for the legal opinion, which I understand came from Mrs. Bloodworth, and that should come to us before our meeting with Mrs. Bloodworth, and Mr. Judd, and someone from Public Works.
That will conclude--
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Just as a point of clarification, the person who I understand might be quite relevant from Public Works would be Jane Billings.
11:10 a.m.
The Clerk
She used to be DM of acquisition of that file.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
I have a point of privilege, Mr. Chair.
Granted, I may not be totally familiar with some of the intricacies of the procedures; I think I'm aware that the steering committee discussions are in camera. But when it comes to correspondence with the committee from outside sources, particularly from the Auditor General's office, I would think it would be respectable practice that the committee find out about that correspondence before we read about it in The Globe and Mail. I was taken aback greatly when I read in The Globe and Mail about some correspondence from the Auditor General. The chairman was quoted, and I had no idea how to comment on that because I was unaware of the communication.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I read that too, Mr. Sweet, and I was a little taken aback. But what happened is that somebody.... This letter that was referred to in The Globe and Mailwas circulated to all members of the committee. Obviously somehow, by some method, somebody at The Globe and Mail got their hands on the copy, because they were quoting exactly from the letter. But every committee member did have a copy of it, I assume, including you. So I don't know how it got into the hands of The Globe and Mail.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
I asked some members, and we weren't aware of it.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
To prevent this problem happening again, Mr. Chairman, I would suggest all correspondence that comes to the clerk and you, as the chair of this committee, be withheld and tabled at the first public meeting after you receive it. That way, if you distribute it to people in their ridings, they don't know about it.... As you know we're inundated with mail. Therefore, if you make it a practice to have it distributed at a public meeting, then it becomes a public document. We all have it, and that way we'll prevent this problem happening again.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I agree with what you're saying. But I believe that's the practice we followed in this case.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Oh, at a meeting? Okay, my apologies. That was a public meeting?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
That was a public meeting, yes. We didn't spend a lot of time on it. We circulated it, but didn't spend a lot of time.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Perhaps as you're distributing it, if you just make reference to the fact that we are distributing this, this, and this, therefore it's on the record that it has been distributed.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay, then.
We're going to go back to the regular meeting. I'm sorry about the intermission there, the break.
I want to welcome to the meeting the Auditor General of Canada, Mrs. Sheila Fraser. She has with her the Assistant Auditor General Ronnie Campbell and Glenn Wheeler.
We also have, from the Department of Health, Hélène Gosselin and Ian Potter.
From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, we have Mr. Paul LeBlanc; we have Mr. Jim Quinn. The schedule indicates the Deputy Minister, Mr. Michael Wernick, is supposed to be here, but I understand he's not here.
Is that correct, Mr. LeBlanc?
11:15 a.m.
Paul LeBlanc Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-economic Policy and Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's correct, Chairman. Mr. Wernick was eager to be here, had fully planned to be here, and had registered his presence with the clerk. Just before leaving the department on his way, he was called to an important matter by PCO. I just got a call from him before we began, so he extends his regrets to the chair, to the committee members, and he looks forward to meeting and discussing with committee members at the soonest possible occasion.