Public Accounts Committee on June 11th, 2007

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

May I say something?

What I saw is a memo Mr. Picard had written to the commissioner saying that I didn't want this released. That was not true, and I wrote him back right away and I said that if he was using my name in there, at least he could have given me a copy. But he didn't.

But all we were trying to do was get something out quickly, which was a summary, until we could check this pile of claims to make sure we hadn't left any out. So even here, when we do something—

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

We'll check Mr. Joyal's records and his notes from that and, I guess, the correspondence that took place—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Final question, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Lavoie replaces Mr. Picard, comes highly recommended from Mr. Gauvin's office. He himself says it was quite unusual for him to send the ATIP through to Mr. Gauvin for a heads-up.

Mr. Estabrooks, did you or Mr. Black feel that any of the portions removed from the Ottawa Police investigation regarding Mr. Gauvin were valid removals?

[Keith Estabrooks]

This is after it had been looked at? Is this the final report you're talking about?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Keith Estabrooks]

This is the final request?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

We know it's unusual that a person of interest in a criminal investigation would get to see it, and I'm not quite sure what Finance has to do with ATIP, but so be it. What about the actual removals of the information from the report? Did you or Mr. Black feel those were valid removals?

[Keith Estabrooks]

We discussed it, and we had—now, these were our opinions—concerns about Mr. Gauvin's name being removed for no obvious reason on the final report that went out. In two or three places we felt it could have stayed in, that it wasn't personal information, but it had been removed.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Mr. Williams.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Gauvin, you said you did tell human resources about Mr. Crupi. I presume that was by a letter or by e-mail?

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

When we took his authority away, it probably was verbal.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Oh. Is this the rule of the RCMP, that when somebody takes somebody's authority away from them, they're breaking all the rules, you just phone up HR and say “By the way...”?

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

He couldn't contract anymore.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Did you do that in writing?

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

I'm not sure. I'd have to check with my people.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Okay. You check and you table in this committee, one, the removal of his contracting authority...and two, you told us you advised human resources. You are the deputy commissioner of the RCMP. You're the CFO. The guy's ripping you off, and you just pop over to the HR department and say, “By the way...”. Did you tell the commissioner you had a corrupt guy in the organization?

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

I didn't know we had a corrupt guy in the organization at that time.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

When you took Mr. Crupi's authority away from him because he wasn't doing the—

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

“Corrupt” is a pretty strong word. He's not the only individual I found in—

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Did you tell the commissioner?

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

At that time, probably not.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Okay.

[D/Commr Paul Gauvin]

Just hold it for a minute, if you'll let me. We have a number of other people who break their contract authorities.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Oh yes, why don't you tell us all about them too.