Mr. Christopherson.
Evidence of meeting #69 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #69 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm sure on a political level, colleagues don't care, but the fact of the matter is that a number of us have been called back to the House to be there around routine proceedings, so 6 o'clock would work, but 6:30 is a problem, because we have votes and there are other things happening in the House. That's the only thing.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
We want to stay and work as long as possible. There's work to be done.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I want to work too, but the priority has to be the House of Commons.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If they want to do 6 o'clock, it's better than nothing, so let's vote on 6 o'clock.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Mr. Chair, if this were a serious motion, I'd take it into consideration. Coming from anybody else, it would be taken seriously, but from this individual, I have a problem with it.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick
We don't want to get into individual commentaries about one another as MPs. A lot of us would not want to go on a cruise together, but this is not the place for us to get into discussions about how we feel about one another. That kind of commentary isn't very helpful.
Do we have agreement to move until 6 o'clock and see how things work out?
5:35 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If it will make my friends in the opposition happy, I'll compromise.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick
I commend the witnesses for being very good, well-behaved spectators today, but it looks like you'll get a chance to be witnesses.
Mr. Christopherson spoke, and now we're back....
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick
They've all worked their way through, Judy. It's good that you're worried that they all get their turn.
Go ahead. Five minutes would be good.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Okay, that's fine. It's because we'd hear about it in two seconds if it wasn't proper.
Mr. Poole, could you elaborate a bit more on the secure channel? You said that there were over five million e-passes that had been given out. Could you elaborate a bit more on the value there?
5:35 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you very much.
E-passes are basically a credential that is passed to a Canadian citizen so that they can process transactions with the Government of Canada. We have issued five million of those credentials within the country to Canadian citizens.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
What were the majority of Canadian citizens using those for? Was it income tax, other inquiries, and so on?
5:35 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I have to go from memory here; I don't have the exact notes. But principally, the main users are the Canada Revenue Agency's “My Account” , the passport people, and Service Canada for record of employment. They are the three main applications that use the system, so mostly it would be Canadian citizens who use those.
I'm just being reminded here as well that there were about two million e-passes that were issued for the census in 2006.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
How is the secure channel going to make Canadians' life easier in dealing with the Government of Canada?
5:35 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Secure channel is fundamentally information technology infrastructure. It provides the tools and the capability for other departments to have their online programs used, so we're very much dependent on how those departments set up their programs to interact with Canadian citizens and Canadian businesses.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
I'm not sure if I'm directing them all at you, Mr. Poole.
How are you going to be measuring the success of not only the secure channel, but any of the IT projects? There are huge challenges to be able to measure how successful they are.
5:35 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I could speak to the secure channel, but I think my colleague could answer for projects overall.
5:40 p.m.
Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you.
When we look at projects overall, one of the things that we have developed and we're in the process of implementing with departments is a methodology called outcomes management. Outcomes management is a process whereby the business owner of the solution that's being developed identifies the specific business outcomes at the end of the project, but all the way through the project. The outcomes management process allows us, as we go through, and as we earn value through the project, to confirm that the business requirements, and actually the business results, are being delivered. I think that mechanism, in addition to whether we completed the project on time, and whether we completed it within budget, if you look at it from an industry perspective, is a far more important indicator.
So did we actually achieve the business outcomes we were trying to achieve from this technology? It plays very well with Mr. Poole's secure channel. Did the secure channel allow Canadians to have access to particular services anywhere, anytime, in a way they wanted to access them? You can look at the numbers and the volume, so it does that sort of thing with different types of business environments.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
It's been a while since you've done this audit. Are you aware of what the take-up is now, compared to what it was then?
5:40 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Actually, one of the concerns we had in this audit was the take-up rate of the secure channel. We noted in the audit at that point that it was significantly below expectations. We have become aware that Service Canada has temporarily suspended it. Now, that may be coming back on, but the last time we looked it was still not using the secure channel. The Canada Revenue Agency does not use it for income tax. There would appear to be very few large programs that are using the secure channel, at least to date. I don't know what future intentions are, and that is one of the issues, because it does cost about $100 million a year to operate that.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
The intention is, I would assume, to make sure the departments are fully aware of the services that are available. Initially, on many things, there's a slow pick-up at the beginning of a lot of these various IT projects.
Do you have confidence in the future that the departments are going to buy on to this project?