Public Accounts Committee on June 20th, 2007

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm sure I'm getting close to time. I'm going to push on.

I have one more question to Mr. Edwards. In your opening comments, five paragraphs in, in the last sentence, you said that:

As requested by this Committee, Passport Canada's...Annual Report will include an updated Action Plan with revised deliverables and target dates where warranted.

I'd just like some assurances that you're not building that in and that the intent is clearly that you're going to move these dates afterwards and you're covering yourself by doing that. Give me the assurance that that's not what you're doing, and that if there are any revised deliverables and revised target dates, they're going to be in favour of getting this done sooner, not later.

Either one of you can respond. I don't care.

Thank you, Chair.

[Gérald Cossette]

When we say “where warranted”, it's basically because the plan is implemented as we speak. So for the issues that are completed, we will not report on those. We'll report on those that are completed, but we'll talk about what the next step is because we will do that on an annual basis in our annual report.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

But nothing is going to move as a result of you putting this in here, a date. You're not looking for an okay to move dates around as you please, is what I'm asking you, sir.

[Gérald Cossette]

No, we're not.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Oh, good. Thank you very much.

And thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.

Mr. McGuinty, seven minutes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, folks.

Like Monsieur Roy, who a moment ago expressed some concern about what's happening in his riding, I want to come to that in a moment.

But I just wanted to ask first, Mr. Edwards, what is the status of your organization? Are you a special operating agency?

[Leonard Edwards]

The agency of which Mr. Cossette is the head is a special operating agency.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Right. And it's a cost-recovery agency?

[Leonard Edwards]

Yes, it is.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you.

Does that mean it's 100% cost recoverable?

[Leonard Edwards]

Yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you.

I did some calculations before coming to the meeting today. Between January and April of this year, in my constituency office, which is a typical urban constituency office with 110 countries of origin in the riding and 82 languages spoken, we've received roughly 10 to 12 times as many requests for assistance with passports as we normally would during that period.

That is something I would put to you, Madam Fraser, in your subsequent audit of the passport office's performance. I know yours stopped in August 2006.

The delays in processing requests for new passports and these renewals have led to unbelievable frustration among constituents. I've even gone as far as to negotiate on behalf of constituents to see if their travel cancellation insurance will cover delays in passport issuance, which it will not.

There are thousands of dollars at stake for average working families who book holidays, who are looking at summer travel, who looked at March break travel.

That is not to say, as others have said, that your staff haven't done terrific jobs, given the difficult circumstances. But the backlog itself is creating even more work because now we have the temporary measures—these limited validity passports—which are also confusing constituents who need travel documents. And they're putting in, for example, their birth certificates to obtain, if I understand correctly, the limited validity passports, only then to turn around to the provincial governments, having to claim, in some cases, that they have lost their birth certificates in order to get new ones issued so they can make their applications for the longer-term passports.

So the distributive effects of these delays are actually really serious on the ground for people who are trying to travel.

But I want to come to the new rules in particular. I know the Minister of Foreign Affairs announced new rules on June 8, and he is quoted as saying at the time, “The volume (of applications) has been substantially increased, and we had to respond to that”. I take that as substantiation for the need for these new rules.

On this question of any passport-holding Canadian to act as a guarantor and the ending of the requirement to submit original proof of citizenship with the application, were these negotiated or discussed with the United States government before they were brought in?

[Gérald Cossette]

No, they were not.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Has there been a reaction from the United States government?

[Gary McDonald]

I would point out to you that this is exactly the process in the United States, as I understand it. You apply once with full documentation and from then on you are allowed to apply without having to appear before an official or submit original proof of citizenship.

Essentially, the renewal process that we are implementing is in fact used by many countries, and it is the norm in many countries to have citizens submit the documentation only once.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So the fact that we have a system now that's symmetrical with the United States, was that an inspiration for our choices?

[Leonard Edwards]

Let me answer that.

No, it wasn't, and there was no check done with the United States before we implemented those changes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

On the question of ten-year and five-year lengths of passports, the rationale given twice so far was that it was a security question. Is it security or is it pecuniary?

[Gérald Cossette]

It is security.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Are there significant financial implications for the office if we were to move to a ten-year passport length, for example, as opposed to a five-year passport?

[Gérald Cossette]

If we were to move to a ten-year passport, we would have to rethink the way we do business, because the volume would have to be managed differently.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

And resources....

[Gérald Cossette]

And resources would have to be managed accordingly.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay.

Madam Fraser, did you look at that at all in your analysis?